New Sheriff In Town...

[hskwarrior]

Hey, I don't want to offend anyone so if I do just let me know and I'll apologize and shut up. But it seems to me Ray is just expressing his opinions and backing them up with his actual fighting experience. I mean if we all just go around agreeing with each other on the forum, won't it defeat the purpose of having a forum? I don't know. I'm just not seeing what he's doing as beating his chest, but rather expressing his opinion and giving his credentials. I won't say anything else about it.

So you don't mind the never ending ride of TCMA bashing? At the same times, even i've learned this, if you want people to listen to you leave out the bashing part. personally, i don't care about ANYONEs fight record. what they could do what they can't do. some things only need to be said once.

[Ray Pina]

So you don't mind the never ending ride of TCMA bashing? At the same times, even i've learned this, if you want people to listen to you leave out the bashing part. personally, i don't care about ANYONEs fight record. what they could do what they can't do. some things only need to be said once.

Honestly I have a hard time relating to you.... you don't care if form relates to martial skill. You don't care what someone can or can't do...... these are very big concerns for me. I'm fighting people.

I have tried to keep on topic and only divert to defend personal attacks made against myself, usually regarding past losses and "wishy washy" footage. Of sanctioned fights. Or of challenge matches I supposedly duped people into when sparring.... if you notice the video, I fight one guy twice. On different days. Why would he do that? The truth is its just a simple hodge podge of SOME fights I had where SOME friends had a camera.

I don't think everyone needs to fight. That's for sure. But someone in the gym should be at the competitive level, competing. Competition keeps one honest and improves the whole gym.

A teacher or a student posting here without a state sanctioned record or some other outside fight experience.... well, it's like me telling the guy who came in last at the olympics how to run or dive or swim. Competition.... you win some you lose some. Buts its ugly when fans on the sideline start pontificating.

Do your thing. Stick to your thing. But again, I always take the stand that I wouldn't say anything here that I wouldn't say directly to the person if we were on a mat in shorts and a t-shirt.

[Faruq]

So you don't mind the never ending ride of TCMA bashing? At the same times, even i've learned this, if you want people to listen to you leave out the bashing part. personally, i don't care about ANYONEs fight record. what they could do what they can't do. some things only need to be said once.

No, the bashing doesn't bother me. I guess I still believe in the TCMAs regardless to what anyone says. I also believe they're not practiced here the way they are by the people in Asia who know how to use them for the most part. But hey. you're an actual sifu so I know you are a lot more qualified than I am, so if what he says offends you I'll just butt out.

[hskwarrior]

No, the bashing doesn't bother me. I guess I still believe in the TCMAs regardless to what anyone says. I also believe they're not practiced here the way they are by the people in Asia who know how to use them for the most part. But hey. you're an actual sifu so I know you are a lot more qualified than I am, so if what he says offends you I'll just butt out.

I agree with everything you said there. have the same beliefs. thats why i try to make sure i don't raise my students to be guys like that. I'm big on fighting, love it. I also encourage my students to get as much experience in as they can.

so no need to butt out, knowing that there is much more to gung fu and hearing it bashed over and over gets a little tiresome at times.

[Faruq]

Thanks HSKWarrior,

I'd add that a person whose skill and knowledge in TCMA I really respect, Garry Hearfield, does a lot of the stuff Ray advocates, but keeps all the elements of TCMA instead of throwing them away. So I don't think everything Ray says is bad anyway. But I'm pretty sure most of the people here on the forum have practiced martial arts longer than I have, have achieved more and have more knowledge about them, so obviously I'm not gonna go against the grain too loudly with my opinions.

[hskwarrior]

I know sifu, garry, we talk on facebook. i do like the guy. I like Ray too. I know hella guys like him. I just think ray can't get passed the down falls of TCMA, so much so that he can't see anything positive from it.

[Faruq]

If nothing else, you have to respect that both guys put their money where there mouth is, lol.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I think the problem with this forum as well as any internet forum is a lot of these topics are very debatable and very close to home for many, and the fact that what kind of context the person says or does something cannot be relayed well over a forum.

That being said, being argumentative is human nature. People ask "why come to a TCMA forum and bash on TCMA", which is a legitimate question. However, all things must be questioned at some point otherwise what you get is people following a grounded dogma of stagnant and most often useless belief and notions.

Some people do not like forms, some people do.

Some say grappling is not important, some believe Shuai Jiao should be a part of every CMA, some believe cross training is the answer to grappling holes.

Some put down Kung Fu and say is sucks and doesn't fight, some practice Kung Fu and fight very well.

The problem is there are no definitive truths and never will be about this subject. It is simply to broad of an area to make sweeping generalizations. About styles, cultures, people, fighters, training methods, ect, ect.

As a Kung Fu practioner and instructor I do not like hearing the constant bashing of TCMA, but at the same time, I sure as hell don't follow stagnant dogma because a wise old man with a cool looking beard told me so. Have faith in yourself and your art and that in the end is all you truly need.

[Ray Pina]

I'm big on fighting, love it. I also encourage my students to get as much experience in as they can.

OK. You made a statement.

How do you encourage your students to get experience?

[Ray Pina]

Thanks HSKWarrior,

I'd add that a person whose skill and knowledge in TCMA I really respect, Garry Hearfield, does a lot of the stuff Ray advocates, but keeps all the elements of TCMA instead of throwing them away. So I don't think everything Ray says is bad anyway. But I'm pretty sure most of the people here on the forum have practiced martial arts longer than I have, have achieved more and have more knowledge about them, so obviously I'm not gonna go against the grain too loudly with my opinions.

I appreciate what you are saying. Thank you.

For the record. I have kept everything I was able to acquire from my master. I never called anyone master before or since. I have a student now. And I 100% use the boxing drills I learned from him. I even invented a couple boxing drills based off their theory which I find to be more alive.

The core concept is 100% keep our door closed, open the other's door, then hit. 100% intercept you or make you block first, complete control, then hit..... to me, that's 100% TCMA thinking.

I've just added BJJ because it's awesome, works and works under similar principles of structure and mechanics. I find a lot of internal principles in BJJ. It's an awesome style.

[hskwarrior]

I think the problem with this forum as well as any internet forum is a lot of these topics are very debatable and very close to home for many, and the fact that what kind of context the person says or does something cannot be relayed well over a forum.

That being said, being argumentative is human nature. People ask "why come to a TCMA forum and bash on TCMA", which is a legitimate question. However, all things must be questioned at some point otherwise what you get is people following a grounded dogma of stagnant and most often useless belief and notions.

Some people do not like forms, some people do.

Some say grappling is not important, some believe Shuai Jiao should be a part of every CMA, some believe cross training is the answer to grappling holes.

Some put down Kung Fu and say is sucks and doesn't fight, some practice Kung Fu and fight very well.

The problem is there are no definitive truths and never will be about this subject. It is simply to broad of an area to make sweeping generalizations. About styles, cultures, people, fighters, training methods, ect, ect.

As a Kung Fu practioner and instructor I do not like hearing the constant bashing of TCMA, but at the same time, I sure as hell don't follow stagnant dogma because a wise old man with a cool looking beard told me so. Have faith in yourself and your art and that in the end is all you truly need.

Well said bro. that was one long message that i actually chose to read all the way through. I'm totally with you on that. I've always stated here and to all my students that gung fu was a personal road to travel. this concept has been passed down from teacher to teacher in my sifu's school. They would look at your best attributes and teach you accordingly.

[hskwarrior]

How do you encourage your students to get experience?

Let me state this first. I am more of an underground teacher. Secondly, we're a stand up style, so style wise we don't go to the ground. Most of the guys i've trained didn't want to fight in the ring. BUT, I've come to the point where i don't want them fighting in the streets anymore and want them to go into competition fighting. with that said.....

To answer your question, first is my students spar alot. Students from other schools have come by and we have sparring sessions. On the other side of the coin, i don't tell my students to go bully anyone. but, i have taught them to never back down from a confrontation. so yes, i encourage them to get their street experience on if they have to. Aside from what i just said, i don't want to get into a big discussion on this or that. I'm not trying to compare or share anything right now.

[Lucas]

I've just added BJJ because it's awesome, works and works under similar principles of structure and mechanics. I find a lot of internal principles in BJJ. It's an awesome style.

not to mention that you need a good grappling base for the arena you compete in.

personally, i think its cool that you compete in mma and vale tudo and not only retain and use your cma skills in the ring, but also have started teaching them.

[Ray Pina]

Again, can you tell me how you "encourage" your students "to get experience?"

I think this is wear the rubber meets the road. You love fighting and you encourage your students.

Do you fight? Do your students fight?

Do you encourage them to cross train at boxing, BJJ or other TCMA schools? Does your school spar? With gear? To what intensity?

Do your students compete? Inside TCMA or inside and outside of TCMA?

I don't need the answer because it doesn't matter to me. But each of these key points reveals something about a gym and its focus. For me, there's nothing like training under someone who fights. They get it. They understand....there's a feeling walking into the gym with a bunch of competitors. I would only train with a non fighter if they were retired. Past that age. But have done the fighting and have fighters under them.

[hskwarrior]

Again, can you tell me how you "encourage" your students "to get experience?"

I think this is wear the rubber meets the road. You love fighting and you encourage your students.

Do you fight? Do your students fight?

Do you encourage them to cross train at boxing, BJJ or other TCMA schools? Does your school spar? With gear? To what intensity?

Do your students compete? Inside TCMA or inside and outside of TCMA?

I don't need the answer because it doesn't matter to me. But each of these key points reveals something about a gym and its focus. For me, there's nothing like training under someone who fights. They get it. They understand....there's a feeling walking into the gym with a bunch of competitors. I would only train with a non fighter if they were retired. Past that age. But have done the fighting and have fighters under them.

That's me now. After seeing many sides of this thing.

I've said what i said. I'm not going any further in this with you.