Wing Chun - Why doesn't Pak sau work?

[WC1277]

What do you guys think? Why doesn't the pak sau work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0OM...el_video_title

[WC1277]

Read the comments underneath the video if any of you are confused on what kind of conversation I'm trying to start here.....

[bennyvt]

Because he is not extending with his Pak. If he kept going into a jum then punch it should block it if you control it wit your elbow. This would also mean you would be in a better position to attack them when the being the hand back

[rett]

I thought the video is okay since the point is just get people thinking. If I was there I'd raise my hand enthusiastically and if teacher points at me here's my attempt at an answer:

That move isn't a block. It's not supposed to stop a straight punch that has power. At best it can deflect a few degrees of angle and establish touch contact. The guy on the receiving end should turn to evade the punch or make the punch hit him at an oblique angle so there's little power in the impact. It's okay if his chest gets touched if little energy is transferred. (not so good if the attacker is holding a knife though) If the punch is aimed at his head he should get his head out of the way, even if he uses a deflect/parrying motion. Then the hand that did the intercept may be in position to chop to opp neck or jaw, or something similar.

[HumbleWCGuy]

What do you guys think? Why doesn't the pak sau work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0OM...el_video_title

I assume that what you are getting at is people's inability to transfer things from stationary drills to a real time situation. It's too bad that the conversation is soo unproductive.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I thought the video is okay since the point is just get people thinking.

Yea, I am not sure what all the sniping is about. If you teach any striking art, people have trouble with their defense and it usually stems from the same couple of mistakes. The point of the video was to show it erroneously so that we could then see it correctly.

Judging by the comments, the follow up video strongly needs to be posted.

[n.mitch]

The timing could be off, if the pak only catches a bit of the attack the pak can still turn into a punch and hit the opponent. Turning the stance will help get the body out of the way. Or footwork to the side can do the trick as well

[couch]

The Pak Sau in the video doesn't work because he's chasing hands, not chasing Centre Of Mass.

[Violent Designs]

So what do you guys think is the difference between a WC pak sao and a parry in boxing (or how another style uses pak sao).

[YouKnowWho]

This is a good example that it's better to rotate the body to block a punch (body connected) instead of just move the arm without moving the body (body disconnedted).

Many years ago, the 7 star prey mantis master Brendan Lai challenged me in speed. He said that he could strike my back shoulder and I could not even use my leading arm to block it.

- We both started with right side forward with both arms down.
- His right leading hand striked at my left back shoulder.
- I rotated my body to my left.
- My right forearm blocked his right arm.

Brendan had tried 3 times and I had intersected all 3 of his punches.

Instead of trying to use my hand to intersect his punch, I moved my left shoulder out of his striking path. Whether my right hand could intersect his punch or not is no longer important at that moment.

[WC1277]

I definitely agree that

1 - he's 'passive' chasing

2 - he's not using his whole body

3 - most importantly, he's not invading the center. You can only be stationary and deflect effectively if you're connected. Otherwise you should be constantly trying to disrupt the opponents center by moving in. The act itself of taking over the line will give you the best odds of making it work.....

[Wayfaring]

What do you guys think? Why doesn't the pak sau work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0OM...el_video_title

Because he has no structure. His elbows are not supported by the alignment of the rest of his body, so he is trying to affect the center of gravity of his opponent with the strength of his arm alone.

[desertwingchun2]

3 - most importantly, he's not invading the center. You can only be stationary and deflect effectively if you're connected. Otherwise you should be constantly trying to disrupt the opponents center by moving in. The act itself of taking over the line will give you the best odds of making it work.....

I was going to post Pak Sau IMO should be played destructive. This one was a literal slapping hand. I think your #3 may be a little more lucid than my answer.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I definitely agree that

1 - he's 'passive' chasing

2 - he's not using his whole body

3 - most importantly, he's not invading the center. You can only be stationary and deflect effectively if you're connected. Otherwise you should be constantly trying to disrupt the opponents center by moving in. The act itself of taking over the line will give you the best odds of making it work.....

By virtue of what you were showing which was drilling slowly and then full speed. The core issue appears to be reaction time. Your student knows how to do the movement, he just can't execute it at full speed.

All of these suggestions about structure and basic execution are missing the point.

[WC1277]

Just to clarify in case there was confusion. This is NOT me nor my video. Something I found that thought would make good conversation.