Wing Chun - Why doesn't Pak sau work?

[imperialtaichi]

Well put John, hows things anyway?

Hey Glenn, I'm well. Almost met Sifu Beau the other day, but he was unwell so he didn't come. Did some Chi Sau with Sifu Karen. Very nice person. It was good.

Hope you're well.

John

[jesper]

The difference wit h boxing is with the forward pak sao not really the side one. It can be turned into a strike if controlled by the elbow. Which means that if it is a fake you just hit him, its only when it contacts with a really strong punch that you. Would need to stop it in the pak sao position

Funny my first thought was to say "because your not using it correctly, stupid". your so much more diplomatic compared to me

[Eric_H]

Funny my first thought was to say "because your not using it correctly, stupid". your so much more diplomatic compared to me

I was in the same boat - thought the only thing the awful video would bring to discuss is why they're doing pak sao so horribly wrong. Some decent comments about range and gravity control came out of it though.

[k gledhill]

Funny my first thought was to say "because your not using it correctly, stupid". your so much more diplomatic compared to me

A lot of guys said exactly the same thing but got deleted ....

[Phil Redmond]

Response to:
Wing Chun - Why doesn't Pak sau work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlSRp3b7Ns4

[GlennR]

Response to:
Wing Chun - Why doesn't Pak sau work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlSRp3b7Ns4

Nice... thanks Phil

[WC1277]

Response to:
Wing Chun - Why doesn't Pak sau work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlSRp3b7Ns4

Some good points Phil with regards to the William Cheung way. Nice job!

[wingchunIan]

Nice response Phil. As you say hopefully we'll get the follow up clip soon to understand what the guy was trying to demo / point he was trying to make as there are so many fundamental things wrong with the application of pak sau demonstrated in the original clip.

[k gledhill]

Pak is 1/2 an attack, the other half is the part everyone is ignoring , along with methods to shut down the fight .

[Phil Redmond]

Pak is 1/2 an attack, the other half is the part everyone is ignoring , along with methods to shut down the fight .

I think we all know that there should be an attack with the other hand like a pak da. But what if your other hand was injured and you had to defend with only the pak. Does that demo mean that pak doesn't work?

[LoneTiger108]

Response to:
Wing Chun - Why doesn't Pak sau work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlSRp3b7Ns4

At least your guy was doing paksau Phil!

I've avoided posting here coz the first clip was nothing more than a speed trick and the guy attempting paksau was actually doing something else (I will leave it to others to tell us what he was doing)

I generally like the Windy City clips as he has a good character and clear presentation style. But this one is worse than me messing about in my studio! Didn't he do a follow-up clip himself??

[k gledhill]

I think we all know that there should be an attack with the other hand like a pak da. But what if your other hand was injured and you had to defend with only the pak. Does that demo mean that pak doesn't work?

The idea of the striking hand is that it 'sweeps' the line ..lin sil di da regardless of the pak sao contact or not..... this is something we train. A punch that protects the center as it strikes. because we x the line with the wrists [as opening moves] the forearm becomes another barrier .

Pak deflects to the center line with the lead hand , not across the center line at the apex , pak only x'es the center line in rear pak sao , everyone knows that ! This is also another way to practice pak to the center then strike forwards , so you dont x the c-line and do back fists.

The deflective force is ballistic , like pole deflections , we slap arms OFF the punch path so the STRIKE can have a pathway to the targets jaw and we turn the opponent using their lever aka arm, why we use pak . One arm recycles back to become a new attack [wu] as the new lead striking arm makes the previous pak redundant.

Newtons cradle is an example of this kinetic transfer of energy to a lever aka an extended arm.
This ballistic force transfer will turn an opponent as well, so its tactically working an idea as well.
the dummy also becomes this kinetic transfer with relaxed recoil so the energy doesn't disrupt us too and makes us able to change force directions , actions quicker.

You can see in all the clips posted by the guy that he sticks to arms with hands , over traps, overturns and chases across his OWN center line, the two of them are chasing across each others lines, blind to the reasons they can be hit easily ....ergo they play the 'speed' game of action -eye/mind lag- reaction.
The clip shows a lack of lin sil di da knowledge, simply becasue the pak takes on this all or nothing idea, so it has to hold, control, due to the following punch hinging the elbow up and too far away to utilize anyway.

So many mistakes is embarrassing but , hey, they posted it and asked


pak and jum striking have similar energy to the centerline but not over it , this alignment is critical to the defense of the following hand. The elbow contraction is the handle to the whip at the tip of the apex.
Any deviation and the rear WU sao takes over.
This is also a glaring lack of understanding in the clip by trying to beat a bad pak sao with speed, rather than LETTING the bad pak sao stick all it wants and chase , then simply hitting on the other side of the line with the rear hand ...if he isnt punching with pak , then its even easier to end the fight.
This is letting the opponent show you how to hit him. By making simple mistakes we use as opportunistic openings, rather than set pieces.

1:16 pak sao use with striking drills... also earlier but too fast to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdR_VLuyww

[WC1277]

The idea of the striking hand is that it 'sweeps' the line ..lin sil di da regardless of the pak sao contact or not..... this is something we train. A punch that protects the center as it strikes. because we x the line with the wrists [as opening moves] the forearm becomes another barrier .

Pak deflects to the center line with the lead hand , not across the center line at the apex , pak only x'es the center line in rear pak sao , everyone knows that ! This is also another way to practice pak to the center then strike forwards , so you dont x the c-line and do back fists.

The deflective force is ballistic , like pole deflections , we slap arms OFF the punch path so the STRIKE can have a pathway to the targets jaw , why we use pak . One arm recycles back to become a new attack [wu] as the new lead striking arm makes the previous pak redundant.

Newtons cradle is an example of this kinetic transfer of energy to a lever aka an extended arm.
This ballistic force transfer will turn an opponent as well, so its tactically working an idea as well.
the dummy also becomes this kinetic transfer with relaxed recoil so the energy doesn't disrupt us too and makes us able to change force directions , actions quicker.

You can see in all the clips posted by the guy that he sticks to arms with hands , over traps, overturns and chases across his OWN center line, the two of them are chasing across each others lines, blind to the reasons they can be hit easily ....ergo they play the 'speed' game of action -eye/mind lag- reaction.
The clip shows a lack of lin sil di da knowledge, simply becasue the pak takes on this all or nothing idea, so it has to hold, control, due to the following punch hinging the elbow up and too far away to utilize anyway.

So many mistakes is embarrassing but , hey, they posted it and asked


pak and jum striking have similar energy to the centerline but not over it , this alignment is critical to the defense of the following hand. The elbow contraction is the handle to the whip at the tip of the apex.
Any deviation and the rear WU sao takes over.
This is also a glaring lack of understanding in the clip by trying to beat a bad pak sao with speed, rather than LETTING the bad pak sao stick all it wants and chase , then simply hitting on the other side of the line with the rear hand ...if he isnt punching with pak , then its even easier to end the fight.
This is letting the opponent show you how to hit him. By making simple mistakes we use as opportunistic openings, rather than set pieces.

1:16 pak sao use with striking drills... also earlier but too fast to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdR_VLuyww

Actually, I can't believe I'm saying this but not too bad of a post K!

[GlennR]

Actually, I can't believe I'm saying this but not too bad of a post K!

You beat me to it!

[duende]

The idea of the striking hand is that it 'sweeps' the line ..lin sil di da regardless of the pak sao contact or not..... this is something we train. A punch that protects the center as it strikes. because we x the line with the wrists [as opening moves] the forearm becomes another barrier .

Pak deflects to the center line with the lead hand , not across the center line at the apex , pak only x'es the center line in rear pak sao , everyone knows that ! This is also another way to practice pak to the center then strike forwards , so you dont x the c-line and do back fists.

The deflective force is ballistic , like pole deflections , we slap arms OFF the punch path so the STRIKE can have a pathway to the targets jaw , why we use pak . One arm recycles back to become a new attack [wu] as the new lead striking arm makes the previous pak redundant.

Newtons cradle is an example of this kinetic transfer of energy to a lever aka an extended arm.
This ballistic force transfer will turn an opponent as well, so its tactically working an idea as well.
the dummy also becomes this kinetic transfer with relaxed recoil so the energy doesn't disrupt us too and makes us able to change force directions , actions quicker.

You can see in all the clips posted by the guy that he sticks to arms with hands , over traps, overturns and chases across his OWN center line, the two of them are chasing across each others lines, blind to the reasons they can be hit easily ....ergo they play the 'speed' game of action -eye/mind lag- reaction.
The clip shows a lack of lin sil di da knowledge, simply becasue the pak takes on this all or nothing idea, so it has to hold, control, due to the following punch hinging the elbow up and too far away to utilize anyway.

So many mistakes is embarrassing but , hey, they posted it and asked


pak and jum striking have similar energy to the centerline but not over it , this alignment is critical to the defense of the following hand. The elbow contraction is the handle to the whip at the tip of the apex.
Any deviation and the rear WU sao takes over.
This is also a glaring lack of understanding in the clip by trying to beat a bad pak sao with speed, rather than LETTING the bad pak sao stick all it wants and chase , then simply hitting on the other side of the line with the rear hand ...if he isnt punching with pak , then its even easier to end the fight.
This is letting the opponent show you how to hit him. By making simple mistakes we use as opportunistic openings, rather than set pieces.

1:16 pak sao use with striking drills... also earlier but too fast to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdR_VLuyww

All this sounds good and the vid looks impressive too against a wooden dummy or willing student.

But the BIG missing part of the equation here is BREAKING STRUCTURE.

Until you understand that part of the energy equation, all this technique talk is just an illusion.

Sorry to rain on the parade here. But strikes on the centerline will only get you so far.