Wing Chun - Why doesn't Pak sau work?

[CFT]

The problem with using the same arm you're attacking with to deflect and then continue the attack is that it's too many movements and lost timing beats. Once the attacking arm gets moved off the line and switches to deflection it inherently loses a 'beat'. It's far more efficient to switch.

The attacking arm does not 'switch over' to deflection mode if the attack is stymied. The deflection is inherent in the forearms (outer = tan, inner = jum) when you punch in the Wing Chun way. If your attack is moved off the line then you can just punch from your rear hand (wu sau).

[Graham H]

The attacking arm does not 'switch over' to deflection mode if the attack is stymied. The deflection is inherent in the forearms (outer = tan, inner = jum) when you punch in the Wing Chun way. If your attack is moved off the line then you can just punch from your rear hand (wu sau).

Perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GH

[k gledhill]

The attacking arm does not 'switch over' to deflection mode if the attack is stymied. The deflection is inherent in the forearms (outer = tan, inner = jum) when you punch in the Wing Chun way. If your attack is moved off the line then you can just punch from your rear hand (wu sau).

ingenious

[CFT]

I would have had the same mentality before reading the posts here and watching the youtube vids. You can learn a thing or two if you listen and try things out.

Lien wan does not translate to 'mad charge forward'.

[Phil Redmond]

The parry or deflection is applied by the punching arm, as the fist carries the punch. Two outcomes from one action.

This can be true in a straight punch. But what about a round punch or the varied Choy Lei Fat strikes?

[Phil Redmond]

. . . . you can make many thing happen when two people are "co-operating" with each other!
GH

Exactly, that why I competed and why I train fighters now. Having experienced fighting a pro fighter like Jonas Nunez who was trying to knock me out I definitely know what works for me. I'm not saying all but most WC people play spar with friends. That's not the same thing as having someone really trying to hurt you.
When people say this and that works I ask myself if they have tried what they advocate for real.

[Phil Redmond]

The attacking arm does not 'switch over' to deflection mode if the attack is stymied. The deflection is inherent in the forearms (outer = tan, inner = jum) when you punch in the Wing Chun way. If your attack is moved off the line then you can just punch from your rear hand (wu sau).

The WC "way" can also include uppercuts and round punches. You see them in some people's Biu Jee. Straight punches alone might not work against a CLF strikes.

[WC1277]

The attacking arm does not 'switch over' to deflection mode if the attack is stymied. The deflection is inherent in the forearms (outer = tan, inner = jum) when you punch in the Wing Chun way. If your attack is moved off the line then you can just punch from your rear hand (wu sau).

Schematics.... I used switch over for lack of better terms. We use passive within active but very few understand that term.

Anyway, whatever you want to call it, if you're truly connecting to the opponents center when that 'deflection' occurs, you lose a timing beat. If you're not connecting to his center of gravity, it's called passive chasing and all you're really doing is just moving arms. Also not WC...

[k gledhill]

The WC "way" can also include uppercuts and round punches. You see them in some people's Biu Jee. Straight punches alone might not work against a CLF strikes.

I may be around sat. If you want to meet up.?

[Phil Redmond]

I may be around sat. If you want to meet up.?

Heck yeah, I've been waiting to meet you. You should have my number. I'll be in Columbus Park on Bayard and Mulberry Sts. in Chinatown from 3-5pm. Or we can meet later. Call me.

[k gledhill]

Heck yeah, I've been waiting to meet you. You should have my number. I'll be in Columbus Park on Bayard and Mulberry Sts. in Chinatown from 3-5pm. Or we can meet later. Call me.

Okay. columbus park sounds good, we wont freak anyone out.

[k gledhill]

The problem with using the same arm you're attacking with to deflect and then continue the attack is that it's too many movements and lost timing beats. Once the attacking arm gets moved off the line and switches to deflection it inherently loses a 'beat'. It's far more efficient to switch.

We only have two arms. The shoulder that is forward in an attack becomes active and committed, so to speak. You nervous system has to turn it off, then back on to change course. Your rear shoulder/arm, however, is already turned off, so it inherently has a faster reaction time.

This concept is the whole point of the majority of the forms, especially the punching. When you punch in the forms, one elbow pushes out, one elbow pulls in. The exact same motion as pulling a rope. Unless you can figure out a way to pull a rope with one arm and not allow any slack, you're already going against body mechanics and timing.

It's not Wing Chun, it's an add-on....

you just never understood it this way.....it has to be experienced first hand. the whole package, footwork, distances...
Your no different to me,gh, sean66,cft.....we all had exposure to most vt ideas. Because pb is in europe and doesnt expose many to this level of unserstanding, it goes unknown.
I simply tried to share an idea with everyone here and got terence mantra, politics....
Its not going to make you worse, to try and understand....

[WC1277]

you just never understood it this way.....it has to be experienced first hand. the whole package, footwork, distances...
Your no different to me,gh, sean66,cft.....we all had exposure to most vt ideas. Because pb is in europe and doesnt expose many to this level of unserstanding, it goes unknown.
I simply tried to share an idea with everyone here and got terence mantra, politics....
Its not going to make you worse, to try and understand....

I wasn't trying to bash you with that post Kevin. I DO listen to what you say and try to always learn something new, but for myself to either agree or adapt it myself it has to fall within the principles....

[WC1277]

you just never understood it this way.....it has to be experienced first hand. the whole package, footwork, distances...
Your no different to me,gh, sean66,cft.....we all had exposure to most vt ideas. Because pb is in europe and doesnt expose many to this level of unserstanding, it goes unknown.
I simply tried to share an idea with everyone here and got terence mantra, politics....
Its not going to make you worse, to try and understand....

Think about it man, that concept won't work against someone significantly bigger and stronger than you. I always feel stupid saying this, but WC is supposed to work for women or small or old men. Ving tsun may be a physically fit man's game, which is fine, after all Graham says it's a boxing system repeatedly.

But the system I practice is not just that alone. Fong Sifu is a lot smaller than most people think and getting up there in age and I've seen him take on guys three times his size. Joy is a good example as well....

[k gledhill]

Think about it man, that concept won't work against someone significantly bigger and stronger than you. I always feel stupid saying this, but WC is supposed to work for women or small or old men. Ving tsun may be a physically fit man's game, which is fine, after all Graham says it's a boxing system repeatedly.

But the system I practice is not just that alone. Fong Sifu is a lot smaller than most people think and getting up there in age and I've seen him take on guys three times his size. Joy is a good example as well....

This is where you dont understand the line and how we deal with force. We dont stand doing chi-sao, turning with arms like chisao.....its easy to see how a smaller person would fight....
Anyway, maybe one day....