KIMBO SLICE gets schooled

[sanjuro_ronin]

Every coach I know HAS done his chosen sport, just like every MA teacher I know HAS done his chosen MA.
They may not h ave competed at a high level or even at all, but ALL of then HAVE experience in their chosen sport.

Marc Laimon is a good MMA grappling trainer who never fought.

Cus D'Amato and Angelo Dundee are boxing trainers who never fought. Dundee is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame as a trainer.

I don't know Marc but I am sure he has more than enough experience IN HIS Sport to teach it.
As for Cus and Angelo, they did fight, you don't box without fighting in their day.
They may not have had impressive records, but that doesn't take away from their amazing teaching ability.

[goju]

actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn't fought. But..yeah, you're right. He's not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.

eh i dont know i believe he said he got his bb in kk karate at 12 which is pretty much impossible no?

[TenTigers]

nope unless you can show it in action its useless, principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that.....

Boxers raise their elbows and shoulders when they punch, raising the shoulder and tucking the chin gives the boxer protection. There is a difference in alignment because of this, which negates the elbow down structure of most TCMA strikes. I'm sure one can find a happy medium, but if you give up on protection, you may be doing yourself a disservice.
TCMAists are looking to intercept strikes before they come to the head and don't take them on the arms and gloves as much (although in Hung Kuen, we do have this), which is why the cover is different-hands more forward.
(don't confuse this to mean a non-fighter's over extended pose, just more forward than a boxer's)

[TenTigers]

eh i dont know i believe he said he got his bb in kk karate at 12 which is pretty much impossible no?

yeah, I'm just saying, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Too many people have this black or white attitude. Either he fought in the cage, or he has no useful knowledge.
Well, I guess this is fine for some, but they miss out on many opportunities in their lives.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Guys, even if some coaches have no competition experience in the sports that they coach, let's not take exceptions to prove the rule. Second, we don't know for sure why these guys were good, "coaches."

Guys like Master Toddy have, "trained," numerous MT champions, but he mostly follows the, "CEO" model, where he brings in great trainers who may have had decent fighting careers to train. Toddy is successful because he is more businessman not that he is necessarily the best or most knowledgeable MT coach out there. However, I would bet that he employs the best.

[Darthlawyer]

Do do you think that boxing trainers who haven't fought are less proficient than ones who have?

I was going to out and out disagree with this statement, but my favorite (and the most underrated fighter of all time) fighter Joe Calzaghe was trained by his father, who's only experience was reading a book on boxing.

However, I'd say on the whole a trainer who has fought would be better than one who has not.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I was going to out and out disagree with this statement,

It was a question.

but my favorite (and the most underrated fighter of all time) fighter Joe Calzaghe was trained by his father, who's only experience was reading a book on boxing.

It looks like he had a chance to work with some professional trainers if this information is correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Calzaghe
Whilst in Cardiff, Enzo got involved in the local boxing gym and met Paul Williams, who was trainer of the Newbridge boxing club. Williams invited Enzo to bring his son Joe Calzaghe along. Joe became a regular at the gym and Enzo became Paul's assistant trainer." Williams retired when Joe was 18 and Enzo took over the gym.[1] Enzo Calzaghe has also won 'Coach of the Year' at the BBC Sports Personality awards, Ring Magazine trainer of the year for 2007[1] and Eddie Futch-John F.X. Condon Award, awarded by the Boxing Writers Association of America, for Trainer of the Year 2007.

[Frost]

actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn't fought. But..yeah, you're right. He's not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.

and as i said hes not fought full contact with head shots (i have seen his kyokushin background, they compete without head shots correct?)

[Frost]

Boxers raise their elbows and shoulders when they punch, raising the shoulder and tucking the chin gives the boxer protection. There is a difference in alignment because of this, which negates the elbow down structure of most TCMA strikes. I'm sure one can find a happy medium, but if you give up on protection, you may be doing yourself a disservice.
TCMAists are looking to intercept strikes before they come to the head and don't take them on the arms and gloves as much (although in Hung Kuen, we do have this), which is why the cover is different-hands more forward.
(don't confuse this to mean a non-fighter's over extended pose, just more forward than a boxer's)

and as i said please show it in action against a boxer etc trying to take your head off, i have yet to see anyone succesfully do this ovr and over in full contact enviroment, have you?

[Frost]

yeah, I'm just saying, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Too many people have this black or white attitude. Either he fought in the cage, or he has no useful knowledge.
Well, I guess this is fine for some, but they miss out on many opportunities in their lives.

nope but showing someone something that you have never tried in a real enviroment and saying those that do do it wrong is a bit rich, as you say theres a reason they roll their sghoulder up, which hes not doing in his no telegraphed punch

[Frost]

Every coach I know HAS done his chosen sport, just like every MA teacher I know HAS done his chosen MA.
They may not h ave competed at a high level or even at all, but ALL of then HAVE experience in their chosen sport.



I don't know Marc but I am sure he has more than enough experience IN HIS Sport to teach it.
As for Cus and Angelo, they did fight, you don't box without fighting in their day.
They may not have had impressive records, but that doesn't take away from their amazing teaching ability.

yep, and lamone teaches the grappling aide of MMA< no one goes to him to learn striking for MMA, e is a specialized teacher (not to mention an idiot)

[HumbleWCGuy]

nope but showing someone something that you have never tried in a real enviroment and saying those that do do it wrong is a bit rich, as you say theres a reason they roll their sghoulder up, which hes not doing in his no telegraphed punch

He was wrong to show it, and it was also just wrong. He was creating a strawman boxer to put down. Protecting your head with your shoulder requires no such telegraphing.

[bawang]

i stopped benchpressing and it stopped my telegraphing

i find benching messes up your muscle memory and brings ur shoulder up

[Hardwork108]

nope unless you can show it in action its useless,

So, you cannot fathom why not telegraphing your attack can be useful, unless you see it in a fight? LOL!

principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that.....

Well, Kimbo was interested in finding out about them and since he has had more fighting experience than you will ever have, then perhaps you should take a page out of his book?

By the way, not telegraphing your moves is part and parcel of Wing Chun (probably all other kung fu styles, each in its own way, of course). Why do you think that short range power is emphasized in WC and similar styles? Well, part of it has to do with being "invistible" when in short range. I was always taught not to telegraph my moves by a sifu who has used WC in real fights - and no there are no streetfight Youtube videos of him...LOL

[n.mitch]

micheal jai white is a good martial artist , did he fight in karate tournaments?