Calling BS When you see it

[LFJ]

My take on this topic,

It's an endless battle, best not to get started. As you can see, everyone has a fraud nearby. They are everywhere.

Unless the one in your area is directly affecting you, or your lineage or something, I'd let it go.

I even have one in my city who claims to be a disciple of my master, looked me in the eye and said it. I've let it go for now. Haven't discussed it yet with the master.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

about that filipina fraud....

check this out. she attaches TAI CHI to this......

i'm still waiting to see where the tai chi is........i hate frauds. especially THIS fraud....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLo0COvu4Y4

Tai Chi means "Grand Ultimate". It a descriptive term that is not limited to the martial arts descended from Zhao Bao and Chen villages.

[brothernumber9]

I don't have anything to say about that lady's form, except she must have used the same posture about 50 times. But her website? She needs to just put it up in Tagalog or Basai or whatever her native language is, because english is not her friend. It was like she originally wrote it in chinese and then used babelfish to translate, then post it as is on the web. It was worse than reading any bawang post ever.

[David Jamieson]

There are far larger problems to be called out over and above crappy martial arts schools.

[Shaolin]

I say call a spade a spade, I have no problem calling out frauds.

In the old days before you could open a school in a village/town you had to fight the teacher of the exsisitntg school.

If your skill was not good enough you were not allow to open nor teach in that village/town. I see no reason why this should not still be this way. If you cant put up then close up.

Because this is America not 18th century China. "Shaolin" nor "kung fu" are trademarked. Therefore if someone wants to use the terms to describe their business it is their God given right. I may not agree with the way that these people conduct business and I may believe that they are fraudulent in their teachings but I believe more in their American freedom to do so that 3 generations of my family has served to protect.

Sometimes gentlemen I think traditional teachers get too caught up in the "traditions." They try to live in a time and culture that's not even theirs.

[David Jamieson]

Because this is America not 18th century China. "Shaolin" nor "kung fu" are trademarked. Therefore if someone wants to use the terms to describe their business it is their God given right. I may not agree with the way that these people conduct business and I may believe that they are fraudulent in their teachings but I believe more in their American freedom to do so that 3 generations of my family has served to protect.

Sometimes gentlemen I think traditional teachers get too caught up in the "traditions." They try to live in a time and culture that's not even theirs.

Well, it's not even that sometimes. It is often people living inside their heads creating these delusions that leads to an outward expression that is regarded as absurd by those in the know whom the person is co-opting names from and as artful by the ignorant.

This is served by overinflated egos. There is a lot of that among people who think much of themselves yet have little to offer of any great value to the world.

So, when you're that untalented because you lack ability to take on the role of student long enough to get to master, you wind up with absurdity after absurdity and people who in essence are just desperate for attention.

Oh well, that too shall pass.

[SPJ]

tell people the truth

or what is what.

my stuff is from my teacher, and my teacher stuff is from his teacher etc etc.

for example, shaolin yi jing ying and shaolin jin gang ba shi were incorporated into ba ji boxing, these are from shaolin. they are indeed from shaolin.

the original ba ji teachers were traced to travelling daoist monks. so some of the stuff were from daoist origins, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaTI...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brXcg...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nThEQ...&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sBzX...eature=related

the tune was original russian.

in french

in english

no problems.

but the tune was from russia.

tell people what your stuff is from where and what.

calling beethoven music beethoven

calling mozart music mozart.

that is.

[bawang]

Hey guys,

I need a bit of a headcheck to see if I have a point or am simply developing in to a crotchety old kung fu dude.

There's a school in my neighborhood that teaches (IMO) some pretty BS "shaolin" kung fu that is a pretty big joke.

what shaolin kung fu isnt BS?

[Lucas]

mine *flex*

[Kung_Who?]

I have to admit I use to worry about things like that, but have long since come to the conclusion that there will always be a screw u fu school somewhere close by and most of them will be short lived.
Rather than concern with the actions of others, you might try simply sharing your own knowledge (assuming you are in a position to do so) and let common sense do the rest, , , , , ,, ,

[GeneChing]

about that filipina fraud....

Wow. That's some impressive forum fu, Snipsky. Impressive indeed.

I've had more than a few kung fu brothers who enjoyed challenging fake schools to break their signs. That's some old school punkass tong style for ya. Obviously I don't endorse that.

Ultimately, I've never been one to judge other people's practice. They say that's how you lose the way. It's ironic as I'm in a position where I'm always sorting wheat from chaff. Of course, that's a totally different situation. There's a fake school near my wife's office. I pass it regularly and always peak in, just out of curiosity.

For the most part, there's so much interesting stuff to focus upon that I do my best not to waste time with fakes. I don't let the negative suck me down.

[Dragonzbane76]

worry about yourself and how you train. They will be exposed for what they are eventually.

[PalmStriker]

Challenge their "Master", beat him up some, kick him out, take over the school, charge the students 50% more for real kungfu, have the female students take turns bringing you Chinese take-out from the proceeds. Remodel. http://www.google.com/search?q=pictu...w=1440&bih=749

[David Jamieson]

I believe that you should not be teaching unless you have used your art in real combat situations or at least have been tested for a year.

So...tested for a year is = real combat?

I personally don't think so, here's why.

All training is just training and by that merit is conducted in an environment that is safe physically and mentally. Not to say that injury can't occur because it can, but everyone involved is "feeling" safe and therefore reality is never generated in a training environment.

Someone who has engaged in real combat isn't necessarily a good teacher either. In fact, that aspect is pretty irrelevant in context to martial arts methods which I don't think I need to remind anyone is not rocket science.

It's not complicated to learn structure and power and all that without every actually fighting. What isn't learned is guts. In my opinion, you either got em, or your don't and I can point at a gorrillion examples of why this is more probable and true than not.

training is JUST training. It's preparation for something that may never happen and if you're into sports, then it is still safe and in a sports framework.

You cannot train towards someone picking you off with a rifle from a rooftop. Put it out of your head that you can. NO training makes you superior to ANYONE, ever. A small child can take you out by accident in worst case scenario.

There is a lot of crap talk among martial artists. A lot of chest thumping, a lot of ego driven noise. Train an art because it is interesting and you enjoy it. It's better to train than not, but it is never a guarantee of anything and a wise person can learn a lot from an idiot whereas the other way round? Not so much.

/2¢

[Jimbo]

So...tested for a year is = real combat?

I personally don't think so, here's why.

All training is just training and by that merit is conducted in an environment that is safe physically and mentally. Not to say that injury can't occur because it can, but everyone involved is "feeling" safe and therefore reality is never generated in a training environment.

Someone who has engaged in real combat isn't necessarily a good teacher either. In fact, that aspect is pretty irrelevant in context to martial arts methods which I don't think I need to remind anyone is not rocket science.

It's not complicated to learn structure and power and all that without every actually fighting. What isn't learned is guts. In my opinion, you either got em, or your don't and I can point at a gorrillion examples of why this is more probable and true than not.

training is JUST training. It's preparation for something that may never happen and if you're into sports, then it is still safe and in a sports framework.

You cannot train towards someone picking you off with a rifle from a rooftop. Put it out of your head that you can. NO training makes you superior to ANYONE, ever. A small child can take you out by accident in worst case scenario.

There is a lot of crap talk among martial artists. A lot of chest thumping, a lot of ego driven noise. Train an art because it is interesting and you enjoy it. It's better to train than not, but it is never a guarantee of anything and a wise person can learn a lot from an idiot whereas the other way round? Not so much.

/2¢

Agreed.

I would also point out that, if you go around getting into street fights in order to test your art out, even if you're successful, the chances of someone coming back on you with firepower is immense. In other words, it ain't necessarily over when it's over. The cemeteries are full of big, tough fighters whose luck ran out.