Green Dragon Studios

[lkfmdc]

The pseudo CMA Green Dragon crowd is almost as amusing as the BBM crowd, but I feel I can make a few more useful comments

Do not confuse Chang Tung Sheng with Allen and his crowd. At best, Allen met Chang a few times through Gene Chicoine. Should I remind the world that Allen and Gene got caught with that doctored photo they used to use, the one where they put Chang in between them to make it seem like Chang endorsed their stuff... or worse, that it was Chang's material

Funny thing how they got caught, they forgot that under Chang's arm the background was different and never touched it up

I have trained with a number of people who were direct studnets of Chang. Chang was a grappler, a NO NONSENSE grappler, sort of a MMA type really. He had good body mechanics and trained with lots of live wrestling. He also had lots of real world experience from his military/police work. He also HATED the Chi mumbo jumbo and spoke out against it his entire life

[IronWeasel]

Oh yeah, I forgot... you are talking about the BS Green Dragon pseudo-conditioning stuff.

That's not CMA, though. That's made up Americanized money making scam stuff.

You know...your posts have no meaningful content. All you do is cry "B.S." and throw out personal attacks. At least cjurakpt et. al. will acknowledge and move the thread foreward once their questions are answered.

[IronWeasel]

The pseudo CMA Green Dragon crowd is almost as amusing as the BBM crowd, but I feel I can make a few more useful comments

Do not confuse Chang Tung Sheng with Allen and his crowd. At best, Allen met Chang a few times through Gene Chicoine. Should I remind the world that Allen and Gene got caught with that doctored photo they used to use, the one where they put Chang in between them to make it seem like Chang endorsed their stuff... or worse, that it was Chang's material

Funny thing how they got caught, they forgot that under Chang's arm the background was different and never touched it up

Got caught with a doctored photo? Chang DID endore their "stuff".

Why do you post claims like this? What you're doing is this sifu or that lineage false. When others have cast doubt onto YOUR sifu, you became verbally abusive in the forums. Why, then, would you do the very same thing?

[lunghushan]

This discussion is really starting to heat up. LOL

Hey, anybody know about those Shuai Chiao guys up in Salem, NY? I ran into their school in upper Westchester a long time ago. They seemed to train in the funny jackets and all that, but it was so far from civilization as to be an impossible commute.

Here, these guys ... looks like they moved their school. They also claim to be from the Chang Tung Sheng.

http://www.kungfu.org/grand.shtml

[iron tiger]

but what is "chi"? it's not some mystical force

Correct. It's a kind of bio-electricity.

To lump Ong and Chang into the same statement is an insult to Chang

Very true in most cases, but whatever else you might want to say about him, Ong did know how to fight (in the old Chinese tradition & paradigm) and was very accomplished relative to almost everyone you see around today.

That said, he was light years behind Grandmaster Chang's astounding knowledge & level of skill.

[lunghushan]

Very true in most cases, but whatever else you might want to say about him, Ong did know how to fight (in the old Chinese tradition & paradigm) and was very accomplished relative to almost everyone you see around today.

That said, he was light years behind Grandmaster Chang's astounding knowledge & level of skill.

Okay, that's great. Ong did this, Chang did that ... who the hell cares what any of them did.

What do YOU do? What do YOU offer? How effective is YOUR stuff? All this talk of old masters is kindof stupid.

[lkfmdc]

Got caught with a doctored photo? Chang DID endore their "stuff".

Why do you post claims like this? What you're doing is this sifu or that lineage false. When others have cast doubt onto YOUR sifu, you became verbally abusive in the forums. Why, then, would you do the very same thing?

I trained with Jeng Hsin Ping, do you know who that is? The various stuff that Allen peddles did NOT come from Chang. And he backed away from claiming that years ago when he got caught.

The doctored photo used to be on all the ads, then suddenly is disappeared. Are you so blind you don't wonder why the pic is NEVER used anymore?

Chang didn't do Bung Bo, he didn't do wu mei, he didn't do bak mei, he didn't do any "southern intellectual fist" LMFAO

Chang didn't even believe in iron palm....

[IronWeasel]

I trained with Jeng Hsin Ping, do you know who that is?

Yes.

The various stuff that Allen peddles did NOT come from Chang. And he backed away from claiming that years ago when he got caught.

I've never heard him claim that. His claim was that Chang 'corrected' some of the material that was taught by Ong. Chang must have known SOME of the same material to do that. Chang was also behind the Yang style Tai Chi that Allen does.

The doctored photo used to be on all the ads, then suddenly is disappeared. Are you so blind you don't wonder why the pic is NEVER used anymore?

I'm Blind? You have me writhing in the grip of your logic...

The 8x10 (or so) was hanging in the office.

Chang didn't do Bung Bo, he didn't do wu mei, he didn't do bak mei, he didn't do any "southern intellectual fist" LMFAO

No one said that he did.

Chang didn't even believe in iron palm....

That topic is being beat up in other posts.

[lkfmdc]

The 8x10 (or so) was hanging in the office

Then walk up to it and ask yourself, why is the background under CHang's arms radically different than the background behind both Allen and Gene Chicoine?

[IronWeasel]

Then walk up to it and ask yourself, why is the background under CHang's arms radically different than the background behind both Allen and Gene Chicoine?

Not really sure why you're focusing on the photograph. Are you trying to imply that the Discipleship is fictitious because you don't like the looks of a photo?

There aren't many pictures of me at work. We must conclude that I am unemployed!

[kal]

I remember that photograph. It's the one where Allen still has a beard, right?

I'll see if I can dig one out of my old magazines.

I recall that in the ad that went with that photo, it said Allen was a 7th degree and Chicoine was a 9th degree.

What were those grades actually in? (SC?) and who awarded them?

[Akronviper]

The pseudo CMA Green Dragon crowd is almost as amusing as the BBM crowd, but I feel I can make a few more useful comments

Do not confuse Chang Tung Sheng with Allen and his crowd. At best, Allen met Chang a few times through Gene Chicoine. Should I remind the world that Allen and Gene got caught with that doctored photo they used to use, the one where they put Chang in between them to make it seem like Chang endorsed their stuff... or worse, that it was Chang's material

Funny thing how they got caught, they forgot that under Chang's arm the background was different and never touched it up

I have trained with a number of people who were direct studnets of Chang. Chang was a grappler, a NO NONSENSE grappler, sort of a MMA type really. He had good body mechanics and trained with lots of live wrestling. He also had lots of real world experience from his military/police work. He also HATED the Chi mumbo jumbo and spoke out against it his entire life

Very well said, the Chicoine/Allen relationship was one of bussiness and was ended quickly.

The martial arts Allen knows is to be blunt a half ass Shaolin version from Ong. The remaing material is stolen, borrowed or whatever. Seeing that he sells this for $80 a tape it dosnt really matter how good it is because its just a business.

It may be hard for many to come to terms with this because know one belives their teacher is not the best thing out there, if you did you would'nt be there.

Is there usefullness in the tapes? yes. Are they the greatest? No. Should one use the tapes for learning purposes? absolutly not....

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Correct. It's a kind of bio-electricity.



Very true in most cases, but whatever else you might want to say about him, Ong did know how to fight (in the old Chinese tradition & paradigm) and was very accomplished relative to almost everyone you see around today.

That said, he was light years behind Grandmaster Chang's astounding knowledge & level of skill.

Iron Tiger, you make many claims as if you have seen these things first hand; whom did you train with? Did you train with Chang or Ong? What knowledge of other styles/sifu do you have, to say these things?

If you only trained with Allen, how can you state these things as 'fact', when what you are really doing is repeating what you have been told by Allen. If this is the case, you should preface these statements with; "J. Allen told me....".

And even if you only saw either of these men demo something...what is your experience or frame of reference to make such bold statements??

Not hating...just asking legit questions.

[cjurakpt]

Correct. It's a kind of bio-electricity.

no, it's not; "bio-electricity", or the electrical current that occur naturally in the body and that is easily measureable (and yes, many "classical" acupuncture points do display differences in electrical potential relative to areas around them), is not qi, in terms of the overall concept of the metaphor; again, if you really understand what qi "is", you realize it's not an objectifiable "thing" - it is a descriptive metaphor for a set of functional interelationships in the body as it relates to itself and to the outside world; it is a functional model that, when followed with appropriate internal consistency in context of Chinese body view / medicine, yields a reasonably predictive degree of diagnositic, therapeutic and prognostic information

[MonkeyKingUSA]

cjurakpt wrote:
...if you really understand what qi "is", you realize it's not an objectifiable "thing" - it is a descriptive metaphor for a set of functional interelationships in the body as it relates to itself and to the outside world; it is a functional model that, when followed with appropriate internal consistency in context of Chinese body view / medicine, yields a reasonably predictive degree of diagnositic, therapeutic and prognostic information


And this definition is based on what? What is your source? You say this as if it is a proven fact. Can you provide evidence?
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you. But since you act as if you are speaking with authority, I wonder where that authority and certainty comes from.
Since your profile doesn't tell us anything about you and you do not give your real name, we do not know if you have the background to make this judgement for us. Are you a scientist, a master of qigong, or a doctor of TCM?
No offense intended, but when you make a statement like "if you really understand what qi is" you set yourself up as an expert on the subject. So we would like to know the basis of your expertise.
Thanks in advance!
Richard A. Tolson