Green Dragon Studios

[ChuangkTzu]

At a Q&A session I was attending (also on the Q&A video tapes), Sifu Allen mentioned having an extensive film library of Master Feeman Ong. Evidently, they had yearly demonstrations, which Allen helped film. He spoke of the huge difference between Ong and the so-called "celebrity masters" on the west coast (Ong being much better). After seeing his son Stephen perform, I regret never having had the privilege of seeing the Master Ong footage. At the end of the 1983 Kwan Ying Do demonstation video, Master Ong does break numerous bamboo rods (which are being held up only with newspaper), without ripping the paper. Unfortunately, there is no forms footage of Master Ong on this tape, due to a severe ankle sprain he sustained a few weeks earlier. You see him favoring his ankle as he walks up to the bamboo rods, and he actually slips and falls at one point during the rod-breaking performance.

I'd be curious if anybody in this forum has seen the footage, or has witnessed Master Feeman Ong perform live.

It has often been questioned on this forum if Allen really did train with Ark Wong. He mentioned it more than once at the Q&A sessions I had attended. I don't remember if he mentions that on the Q&A video tapes. If I remember correctly, he started, during his summer vacations, making treks out to California to train with Wong. I think he stated he had been with Ong approximately 4 years when he started training with Wong. He always spoke highly of Wong, and agreed with him regarding many things, including weapons training: You don't need years of empty-hand forms to be able to start weapons training. I have corresponded with a guy who trains in the Five Family/Five Animal Style. He told me he highly doubted Allen trained with Wong prior to watching the Q&A video tapes. After watching the tapes, he feels almost positive he DID train with Wong.

Chuang Tzu

[iron tiger]

I think he stated he had been with Ong approximately 4 years when he started training with Wong

One of many possible examples of why some peoples' "timelines" given in this thread regarding Sifu Allen's training/acquisition of Chinese forms is incorrect.

Among many other assumptions & presumptions & outright little white lies.



And ChuangkTzu, it does strike me as somewhat curious that you would've trained at Green Dragon for any amount of time without exposure to power sets or exercises aside from those alluded to in the articles & tapes; let alone the lack of reference to some of the benefits such exercises/programs provide---for students who stick 'em out---over & above the merely 'external' ones.

Just an observation.



Nevertheless, good luck to you in your own training et al.

[JDK]

I could be wrong, but I remember his 70th birthday party being at the Galaxy Restaurant in Wadsworth. He sure doesn't look his age, does he?

I could be wrong which birthday I attended with my wife ( she went to School with Stephen at Norton) but yes.....he doesnt look anywhere near his age.

JDK

[kal]

What is the truth behind why Green Dragon's column was dropped from Inside Kung Fu?

When it happened, the editor claimed that it was merely the result or reorganising or format change.

However, Allen has said that it was as the result of several high profile Chinese teachers on the West Coast that had demanded that IKF stop his column.

What's the truth?

And who were these prominent and influential West Coast Chinese teachers? Doc Fai Wong and Adam Hsu maybe?

Another thing: I have found an old advert in IKF showing the photo of Chang Tung Sheng between Allen and Chicoine and it does indeed look like the background wall under Chang's arm is different to the rest of the picture! Was that photo actually doctored after all?

[JDK]

.... After seeing his son Stephen perform, I regret never having had the privilege of seeing the Master Ong footage. At the end of the 1983 Kwan Ying Do demonstation video, Master Ong does break numerous bamboo rods (which are being held up only with newspaper), without ripping the paper. Unfortunately, there is no forms footage of Master Ong on this tape, due to a severe ankle sprain he sustained a few weeks earlier. You see him favoring his ankle as he walks up to the bamboo rods, and he actually slips and falls at one point during the rod-breaking performance.

I'd be curious if anybody in this forum has seen the footage, or has witnessed Master Feeman Ong perform live.

Chuang Tzu

I was at that very Demonstration!! It was held in the Auditorium of Catholic Church/School in Akron.
And you are right, Master Ong had sprained his ankle and yet still broke most of the bamboo rods with his Sword, until he slipped and fell...but he got up, and finished slicing the last 2 or 3 rods.

Also, that was the first time I witnessed Bob Keen have the point of a sharp sword placed on his throat, while a student broke a concrete Slab over his back.

I remember going down to the demo area with my buddy and showed him the sharpness of the spear...the slight read spot on Bob's throat..and also the Bricks that had been broken with a side knife-hand..ala Gene Chicione.
http://www.shuaichiao.com/

It was a good night I will never forget..and only served to help me train harder
so I could be in the next Demonstration.

I believe Master Ong's Daughters performed that night also.and they were great in their own right. Smooth, flexible, quick and explosive.

JDK

[Piercinghammer]

Interesting thing, a friend of mine who was the last person to be promoted to black sash level by Feeman Ong related the story from the County Coronor
that the sprained ankle and the fall at that demo in 1983 where the two things that probably killed Feeman.
Apparently Feeman was a diabetic and would not take his insulin unless he absolutely had to. It was said that he probably had a clot in his leg and the fall
at the demo started it moving. A few days later....... well, the late Feeman Ong.


Mike Biggie
7 Star Praying Mantis, Hong Kong Branch
Choy Li Fut, Hung Sing Branch
Yang tai Chi

[ChuangkTzu]

[. If I remember correctly, he started, during his summer vacations, making treks out to California to train with Wong. I think he stated he had been with Ong approximately 4 years when he started training with Wong. He always spoke highly of Wong, and agreed with him regarding many things, including weapons training: You don't need years of empty-hand forms to be able to start weapons training. I have coresponded with a guy who trains in the Five Family/Five Animal Style. He told me he highly doubted Allen trained with Wong prior to watching the Q&A video tapes. After watching the tapes, he feels almost positive he DID train with Wong.

Chuang Tzu[/QUOTE]

That's why I started the sentence with "If I remember correctly", and not "I know for a fact". In any event, I took notes at all the Q&A sessions I attended, and like the Q&A tapes, I feel I learned a lot from them. Who knows, I might even have the dates and timelines in my notes. My point was, it has often been questioned in this forum if Allen really did train with Ark Wong. It has always been my opinion that he did.


Since you seem to know so much about GD and Sifu Allen, maybe you could help us all out and give us the actual timeline.

Chuang Tzu

[ChuangkTzu]

[QUOTE=iron tiger;
And ChuangkTzu, it does strike me as somewhat curious that you would've trained at Green Dragon for any amount of time without exposure to power sets or exercises aside from those alluded to in the articles & tapes; let alone the lack of reference to some of the benefits such exercises/programs provide---for students who stick 'em out---over & above the merely 'external' ones.

Just an observation.



Nevertheless, good luck to you in your own training et al.

[/QUOTE]


I'd be happy to elaborate if you could oblige and answer my question first.
You know, the one posted 3 days ago regarding Sifu Allen and Willem Reeders

Chuang Tzu

[iron tiger]

I'd be happy to elaborate

Didn't ask you to. It was just an observation.



& fwiw: Nor was the timeline comment addressed to you.

[IronWeasel]

To those of you who know Bob Keen and Stephen Ong, why don't you rerer them to this forum and ask them to post once in a while. That would provide a good knowledge base and keep some of those 'speculation threads' from getting too long.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I think Royal Dragon is right on this one: iron tiger is Sifu Allen.



mickey

[ChuangkTzu]

Greetings,

I think Royal Dragon is right on this one: iron tiger is Sifu Allen.



mickey

Mickey,

I think most of the people following this thread feel the same way. So
as far as I'm concerned,he can post as Iron Tiger, IronWeasel or Lotus Storm, it
makes no difference to me. I do enjoy his insights however, so I hope he continues posting.

Chuang Tzu

[IronWeasel]

Hi, guys...

FYI, I seriously doubt that Iron Tiger is Sifu Allen. If it's that important to you, maybe he'll identify himself. You can always ask.

Iron tiger sounds more like a Green Dragon student who enjoyed his experience there and is just encouraging others to see the positive.

[Royal Dragon]

But his writing style is exactly the way Allen speaks on his tapes...

[IronWeasel]

But his writing style is exactly the way Allen speaks on his tapes...

It is similar. Sifu Allen is a very good speaker and instructor. He organizes his thoughts well and can convey information in an effective manner.

I think that Iron Tiger's writing style is similar because he is using some of Allen's exact phrases. I do too, if I can't think of a better way to say it, or if paraphrasing doesn't paint as good a picture.