Green Dragon Studios

[Steve Hamp]

1. how will doing IV exercises, which are soft in nature (not requiring much tension) protect u from strikes the same way crunches will?

2. if IV protects u so well, how come professional fighters dont do this kind of training?

i'm just wonderng. i bought both the stone warrior and the iron vest tapes back in the day.

1) What happens (even though the exercises are "soft") is the organs are being "lifted" and protected by the ribs, also, the solar plexis becomes very hard.

2) The traditional way takes 1 1/2 hours per day everyday to perform.

Steve

[IronFist]

1) What happens (even though the exercises are "soft") is the organs are being "lifted" and protected by the ribs, also, the solar plexis becomes very hard.

2) The traditional way takes 1 1/2 hours per day everyday to perform.

Steve

1. Can you describe the manner by which the solar plexus becomes very hard?

2. Pro fighters spend more time than that training all day anyway. I'd spend 90 min a day for invulnerability. I don't know why pro fighters don't.

[IronFist]

incidentally, they're

back online

Awesome. I always wished they had a website back in the day. Now I'm gonna spend some time looking around it.

Regardless of how I feel about TCM, I have always agreed with Green Dragon's philosophies on strength (ie. most people don't have enough to make their techniques work), and so for that reason I always thought they were cool.

edit - I also always loved their c.ocky attitude

[sanjuro_ronin]

1. Can you describe the manner by which the solar plexus becomes very hard?

2. Pro fighters spend more time than that training all day anyway. I'd spend 90 min a day for invulnerability. I don't know why pro fighters don't.

From what I gather, because it is "low impact" it takes longer to see results, though theymay be "better and longer term" and they don't "damage" the body like convential methods do.
Most fighters may not have a 2 year career, they look for immediate results.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Many people always use the example of pro fighters when questioning certain advanced TMA regimes and rightly so in certain ways.
But we have to remember that pro level fighters are looking for the biggest bang for their buck in the shortest period of time.
Many TMA regimes tend to be slow in terms of progression, they are things done for the "long run".
IP, IV, Golden bell are not things that are done for "immediate gratification".
There are other programs designed for that.

[Eric Olson]

incidentally, they're

back online

I have never heard of either of these CLF forms. And I did a pretty exhaustive cross branch study several years ago.


I Nan Kuen (One South Fist )
$39.95
Choy Li Fut


A physical strength and body hardening form from Choy Li Fut. The set is designed to work the hands, wrists, arms, and shoulders primarily. It concentrates on hardening the bottom (soft area) of the forearms for use in all hook blocking movements, as well as for grip strength for grabbing and any technique involving Crane hand applications. The bottom of the forearms become like concrete in several months of hard work and can then be used as effectively as the ''bridge'' part of the forearm. Simple in structure, but very result producing in a short time! Excellent foundation for the 2-man contact drills listed in Section I.



Dai Hung Kuen (76 Step )
$39.95
Choy Li Fut


Primarily advanced in classification because of the stamina required to complete it while maintaining full power and good speed all the way through. Known in some circles as the 76 Step set, since the master who introduced it from the Orient taught it with that many counts-- it is actually longer! Strong Choy Li Fut influence, especially in stancework, and definitely builds energy into the body over time.

[IronFist]

The only things I've ever seen from Green Dragon are:

- Their intro vid
- Stone Warrior
- Iron Vest
- Fundamentals of Empty Hand Fighting

Keeping that in mind, I've heard from people on this forum that their forms aren't that good. I've never seen any so I have no comment. I think someone said their Taiji or Bagua was especially bad.

Anyone?

[Henry123]

I'm just curious what do others think of "Green Dragon" videos in general?
They are not making up forms are they????

[sanjuro_ronin]

The only videos I have seen of GD are the ones done by GM Chicoine, the IP and IV ones.
Perfectly fine.
The rest, I have no idea.
Supposedly their "Stone warrior" is comparable to the Iron wire, but even though I have the DVD that a friend sent me, I have yet to see it.
Perhaps I should make the effort to.

[David Jamieson]

I'm just curious what do others think of "Green Dragon" videos in general?
They are not making up forms are they????

all forms, regardless of the system are "made up".

Being "made up" doesn't diminish anything. Our entire world that we create and live in is "made up".

Ineffective is the term that should be used and if that is the case, then case in point examples are helpful.


forms nagging is silly. I mean, yeesh, It's a "form" an empty shape that you fill with intention and use as a vehicle to ingrain skills. If it's ineffective in what it produces in you, then you'll be the only one who knows that.

well, you and the guy who kicked your ass and everyone who saw him do it that is.

[SoCo KungFu]

I've seen some of their stuff

The GD intro vid has some entertainment value. Check out John Allen's right bicep when he's demo'ing the mook jong.

That Pa Chi set that I have never seen anyone else perform is done very muscle based. However if you look at Adam Hsu, he has a whipping energy like what you would find in taiji. A pa chi guy I know in FL performs the same way. So take that for what you will.

Stone Warrior set is very yang. I wouldn't say its like Iron Wire. Most breath is done with "ha" sound, which to my understanding is utilizing the "heart" chi. I haven't seen the SW vid though, just someone that had it perform the routine.

I will say this. From the people that are in the demo, they are all quite well built. Although I don't buy for a second to the claim they all got that way strictly from Stone Warrior. From what I can gather of John Allen's intro speech, they do lean to forms a little more than I like. He doesn't speak to much of sparring and such. Although if forms is your preferred flavor, then their form development system is pretty good, you will definitely know your form if you do it like they say to do so.

I do like how John Allen tells it about strength training. I have some of his old articles for the mags he used to write before he got the boot for causing all the controversy. I thought they were pretty cool.

[Yao Sing]

There was a thread about this awhile back with links to some video clips of a few forms and their apps. As I recall most of the opinions ranged from poorly copied forms ripped from other styles to incorrect interpretation of the apps.

Kinda like copying forms from other styles but using your existing style to interpret the moves. Sounded to me like the accusations leveled at Shaolin Do.

Since I don't know anything about the styles those sets came from or how they should be performed (or the associated apps) I can't give an informed opinion but, like SD, it did look like a Karate guy doing Kung Fu. They seemed to be more yang oriented.

On the plus side they did have workable apps for all the moves whether they were 'correct' for the style or not. I always wonder whether that really matters. If you can use a move in a way that's different than the original intent (and it works) does it really matter that it's 'wrong'?

I've seen 'correct' and accepted apps for moves that I can't believe serious fighters still cling to and pass on to others.

Anyhow, do a search for Feeman Ong (?). I think it was in the Southern forum and was an offshoot of the discussion about Ong. Not sure if I got his name right.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Any links to those articles?

[David Jamieson]

any given move inside of pretty much any given kungfu set will generally and as a rule of thumb have more than one application to the move.

so if you learned one, and saw someone else doing another, you may have an inclination to perceive what they do as wrong.

however, the proof can only be rendered out by actual use of both in a realistic setting.

Not to mention, if you're in a school, club etc, does everyone in your club do the forms the same?

in my experience, everyone has a different flavour with different emphasis on different things inside the same form. especially in the learning and early stage of practice. After a few years of refinement of a given form, the shape and sequence will be more similar, but there will still be differences in forces used. It's the thing about being stylistic in the first place.

[Yao Sing]

Any links to those articles?

Why do peeps always want things handed to them on a silver platter? Just click on "Search" and type in Feemon Ong.

I think the vid links are in the "Who is Femon Ong?" thread or they might be in the "Green Dragon Studios" one.