Mantis Throwing Techniques

[Taixuquan99]

Agreed. In fact, we've been blending push hands and chi sao into what we jokingly refer to as "strappling= striking+trapping+grappling"

Strappling! That's the perfect name for it!

I don't do mantis, but one of my regular training partners does, and both our systems are good for the dropped elbow, so it's interesting to hear our experiences confirmed by you in regards to the use of this against underhooks.

Great discussion!

[YouKnowWho]

The "螳螂手(Tang Lang Shou) - mantis arms" is used very often in the Chinese wrestling. To me, the mantis system and the Chinese wrestling are the best systems to integrated.

[-N-]

I can wait for my opponent to cross his mid-line with the rear guard. I can also force him into that situation from the "clinch". Try to create a chance is always better than try to wait for a chance to happen.

For setting up the waist chop, Mantis controls the opponent's lead arm and attacks his face to force him to cross with his rear guard.

We do this from outside clinch range because you take control early on the way in, and the momentum of your footwork helps the takedown when you finally close.

If we are already close and try to take control of rear hand for waist chop, that can still work, but it requires good skill in short force with the leg work.

But taking over early, closing, AND applying short force is even more effective on the takedown.

[YouKnowWho]

controls the opponent's lead arm and attacks his face to force him to cross with his rear guard.

I don't like that dependency. The moment you release your leading arm control and try to use that hand to grab his back arm, your opponent can use his "free" leading arm to interrupt your action. Trying to use your back hand to grab your opponent's back wrist is not an easy task. the distance is just too far. Also since this may be the only set up, soon your opponent will detect your intention and not fall into your trap.

[mooyingmantis]

I don't like that dependency. The moment you release your leading arm control and try to use that hand to grab his back arm, your opponent can use his "free" leading arm to interrupt your action. Trying to use your back hand to grab your opponent's back wrist is not an easy task. the distance is just too far.

If I am following what Norman is saying, there is no need to release his leading arm until AFTER you have gained control of his rear wrist. Though it is dependent on his trying to strike your face with his rear hand, or his attempt at blocking the cross that you should throw after grasping his lead wrist.

[Thomas316]

Michael Dasargo,

whats the update on the mantis project you mentioned several months ago?

[-N-]

If I am following what Norman is saying, there is no need to release his leading arm until AFTER you have gained control of his rear wrist. Though it is dependent on his trying to strike your face with his rear hand, or his attempt at blocking the cross that you should throw after grasping his lead wrist.

Right. You force him to give you his rear hand by attacking his face while you have his lead hand controlled.

One of the most basic theories of Mantis is that you control and strike. In that concept, you always have some type of control on the other guy while you attack.

You don't always have to do this, but if you're not doing this ever, then you are not doing Mantis.

To combine this with another recent discussion...

Fly in with right hand eye attack to force his right hand reaction.

Grab his right with your right and use left hand Twin Dragons Searching for Pearls.

When he reaches his left forward to defend, you take him down with waist cut.

If that doesn't force his left hand to cross forward of his centerline, then poke his eyes out.

Then grab his head and take him down with waist cut.

Easy, no?

[-N-]

Also, if somehow you don't get a close clean setup for waist cut, then just switch to sweep.

If you mess up on the sweep, steal step and use dun pak.

If you still can't get him, apologize and ask him not to hurt you.

That is if he hasn't already turned it on you.

[Michael Dasargo]

Michael Dasargo,

whats the update on the mantis project you mentioned several months ago?

Zzzzzzz huh whuh? Oh yeah, I should probably get on that...

[Michael Dasargo]

If that doesn't force his left hand to cross forward of his centerline, then poke his eyes out.

Then grab his head and take him down with waist cut.

Easy, no?

New Mantis T-Shirt

"You should probably block this, or you'll just fall blind"

[mooyingmantis]

Also, if somehow you don't get a close clean setup for waist cut, then just switch to sweep.

If you mess up on the sweep, steal step and use dun pak...

Norman,
Good explanation of the technique!

But what is "dun pak"? Sorry, not up on Cantonese.

If you still can't get him, apologize and ask him not to hurt you.

LOL! Or just run like hell!

[-N-]

But what is "dun pak"? Sorry, not up on Cantonese.

That's the one you see in forms as the common followup to that leg lifting sweep.

Looks like a bow and arrow stance.

If the front sweep fails, continue and cut across his base using the back of your leg to take him down.

[-N-]

New Mantis T-Shirt

"You should probably block this, or you'll just fall blind"

Ok, Cafe Press. We'll split the proceeds and buy gear for our classes.

[mooyingmantis]

That's the one you see in forms as the common followup to that leg lifting sweep.

Looks like a bow and arrow stance.

If the front sweep fails, continue and cut across his base using the back of your leg to take him down.

Gotcha, thanks!

[MightyB]

I will consider the following skills as "how to control your opponent's head and neck" and not throws or takedowns.

抹(Mo) - Wiping
摘(Zai) - Helmet taking
摀(Wu) - Face covering
速(Su) - Forehead push
環(Huan) - Neck surrounding
托(Tuo) - Chin pushing
封(Feng) - Throat blocking

Without knowing what the techniques the terms stand for, I can get a good idea of the philosophy. In western wrestling, you usually will cross face or press the opponent's forehead to mask your shoot. I'd love to see vids on those techniques Master Wang, I'm always looking for fun and innovative ways to beat up on the youngsters.