CLF Peng Zheng-Ting

[extrajoseph]

I don't have to go to Futsan, I only been there last year! I don't have to tell any body off, I just have to read between the lines.

[extrajoseph]

you know why you don't answer? cause you know **** well that MONK CHING CHO did exist and wasn't a character created by Chan Kam fai nor Chui Kwong Yuen

Then why Futsan Hung Sing Kwoon not put their name down? Instead it appeared a bunch of South American setups.

It is time for me to stop when you start using the "F" word, you take care, Frank. Get well again soon.

[extrajoseph]

Why are you mad about that? i know you're mad that Fut San has its own history to tell but thats your burden to carry.

I am neither mad, nor Fut San has made up its own history, only a few individuals did to promote their own agenda, and as you can see from the mentioned webpage, they don't have the full support of Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon as an organization.

I know you won't admit that Ching Cho wasn't a character made up by certain members of the Hung Sing clan.

There are no historical evidence to support that Ching Cho existed other than as an alias used from time to time.

So if Chan Kam Fai and Chui Kwong Yuen created the Monk Ching Cho character, how do you explain Monk Ching Cho being the founder of one of the largest and most powerful Tong in Canton and Guangxi?

There is no historical evidence to link this "founder of one of the largest and most powerful Tong in Canton and Guangxi" to Jeung Yim. So he is a made-up character, unless you can provide us with some materials to say otherwise.

Anyone can make up anything that they want to, but don't expect others to hold the same view without some primary source to back up their claims.

This has been going on for years and you still have not showed us anything worthwhile to back up your belief that Ching Cho existed as an individual and taught Jeung Yim something extra and special that he contributed to the founding of CLF.

Until you can do this, it is only your belief and your article of faith, not the actual history of how CLF coming being.

[extrajoseph]

Ps...Chan Kam Fai is a friend of mine on Facebook, i'll pass on that message of your accusations to him.

Go ahead, Chan Kam-Fai knows full well what he is doing and the agenda he is pushing. It is not an accusation, it is a fact.

[extrajoseph]

Alias? is that what it is? just an alias? do you know anything about his name?

Ching Cho is an alias and not a real name because no Chinese surname goes by the character "Ching". It is an alias used by many potential revolutionaries in Chinese history because Ching Cho or Jade-Green Grass is a color of early Spring, a time for renewal, which a revolutionary would aim for and like to use as his alias.

Actually, our history states Ching Cho gave Jeung Yim the Hung Sing name and there is evidence to this name being used prior to Jeung Yim. Do you know the slogan that jeung Yims hung sing name was derived from?

There is no historical evidence that Ching Cho gave Jeung Yim the (Great Goose) Hung Sing name. The slogan you used in your avarta for (Great Goose) Hung Sing showed below:

Attachment 6485

it does not match the Great Goose Hung character used for Futsan Hung Sing, This slogan you used in your avarta says (Heroic) Hung Sing, when tranlsated it says "The "Ying" staff flies out like a dragon wags its tail and the "Hung" fist sends out like a tiger raises its head", is given by Chan Heung, it showed the two major emphasis in CLF training, which are the fist and the staff. "Yin Hung" stands for Hero in Heroic Hung Sing and it is different to the Great Goose Hung Sing you had in the middle of your avarta. The name and the slogan don't match and it showed how much you know about the Chinese language.

In HK, there is a triad group with the very same name given to Jeung Yim by Ching Cho.

"Great Goose" or just "Great" Hung Sing is a name used by a lot of secret societies in the past, including the triads, because "Great Victory" sounded very auspicious. There is no evidence that it is the same name given to Jeung Yim by Ching Cho.

[extrajoseph]

You wanna know where you guys fukked up? you guys tried to claim the Jeung Yim didn't come into CLF's picture until like what 1867? He was even called "part of the last batch of students". You have admitted that Jeung Yim was a twelve year old boy when he first went to Chan Heung. If we follow this line of history, Jeung Yim would have been born in or around 1855 and would have lived well into the 1900's. In fact he would have died somewhere close to the death of Chan Ngau Sing who died in 1926.

We have not "fukked up", whoever claimed Jeung Yim was "part of the last batch of students" is not one of us. Jeung Yim met Chan Heung when he was a boy and followed Chan Heung faithfully all his life.

According to Futsan historians, Jeung Yim took ill and Chan Sheng, his disciple, took him home to his village and he died there in 1893. Below is the Chinese source:

http://www.gd.xinhuanet.com/newscent...t_22086819.htm

1893年，张炎因感染风寒，由陈盛护送回乡，在家病逝。 陈盛，又名陈国材、陈继盛，俗称牛盛，祖籍三水，1864年出生于佛山衙旁街大巷贫户内。

However, Jeung Yim's Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon is registered with Fut San as being established in 1851. that is 16 years prior to when you guys claim Jeung Yim coming into the CLF picture (1867). you guys claim it was Chan Heung who sent him to Fut San, but you still can't explain the school he already set up a decade and half earlier. So if chan Heung sent him to Fut San in 1867 then WHO sent him there in the mid 1800s?

are you going to now say "OH IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING, JEUNG YIM DID COME MUCH EARLIER AND YES CHAN HEUNG DID SEND HIM THERE IN 1851, OOPS OUR MISTAKE!??!?!?! " is that what you're gonna resort to?

The Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon was established in 1851, but not by Jeung Yim but by Chen Dian-Yuan 陳典垣, who went blind and Jeung Yim was sent by Chan Heung to take over the school. This was written up by the then head of the Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon, Deng Guang-Min 鄧光民, back in 23/3/1997 in the "Guangzhou Daily" newspaper under the heading "The Biggest Martial Arts School in China". You can look it up in the newspaper archive if you don't believe me.

IF you're still gonna skirt that issue, how do you explain Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.

The official history says it was established in 1851, but Jeung Yim's name was not mentioned. He came in later and Fut San knows this, and we all agree Jeung Yim made it a great school and helped to spread CLF in this area to great effect. In China if Jeung Yim wanted to make it his school, he would have used the name Hung Sing Jeung Gwoon, but he did not because he was a faithful follower of CLF, so please don't debase him in trying to change CLF history to suit your own biased point of view.

and you still wonder why i don't trust you.....LOL

I don't care if you trust me or not, just give us some decent evidence to back up your claims.

[extrajoseph]

Actually, our history states Ching Cho gave Jeung Yim the Hung Sing name and there is evidence to this name being used prior to Jeung Yim.

Frank,

If you really want the historical truth, then you should go to Jeung Yim's own village to find out and not Futsan.

Jeung Yim first used the name (Great Goose) Hung Sing 鴻勝 not in Fut San but in Kong Men (I lived in this town for 18 months when I was very young), where he first went to teach in 1856. When Chen Dian-Yuan went blind Jeung Yim was asked to take over his post and he took that name to Futsan with the approval of Chan Heung.

(The Great Goose) Hung Sing name was not given by Ching Cho, Jeung Yim chosen it himself to distinguish his Kong Men school from the (Heroic) Hung Sing name used by Koon-Bak in Guangzhou at the time.

This history was given by one of Jeung Yim's own clansman by the name of Zhang Lian-Sheng 張連勝 back in the 80s and was written down by a researchers in the Sun-Hui Museum as a part of the research project done on the history of the region.

Did you know Jeung Yim also taught in his own village toward the end of his life? He called the school in his own village (Great Goose) Hung Sing Jeung Gwoon 鴻勝張館, it got changed to Dongling (Great Goose) Hung Sing Gwoon 東凌鴻勝館 only in 1999 and there are descendants of the "Inner Chamber" disciples of Jeung Yim still living in the Dongling Village (東凌 - Chinese character for Jeung Yim's village) to this day.

Jeung Yim's clansmen never claimed Jeung Yim co-founded CLF nor studied with anyone else other than his father and Chan Heung. I have been to his village, it is not far from King Mui, you can go there and find out yourself.

[extrajoseph]

Chan Koon Pak (1857-1916) was the second son of Chan Heung , founder of Choy Li Fut Kung Fu . After his elderly brother Chan On Pak passed away, he carried on the banner of the system. In the beginning, Chan Koon Pak wanted to become a merchant in the city of Kong Moon (modern day Jiang Men). His friends and family members persuaded him to teach the system of Choy Li Fut founder by his father. Under the constant pressure and encouragement, in 1898 he finally took the position to be the chief instructor of the Hung Sing School of Kong Moon.

haha. Jeung Yim died in 1893. According to the above, Koon Pak didn't take the kong moon until 5 years after Jeung Yim passed away.

Shady bugga you.....

Sorry, my mistake, that should be Chen Da-Ji 陳大楫, When I wrote this, I was thinking about Koon Bak's hassle about the Hung Sing name with Lee Yan when he went from Kong Men to live in Guangzhou. Different generation.

[extrajoseph]

IF you're still gonna skirt that issue, how do you explain Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.

Can you imagine Premier Zhou En-Lai instruct Monk Ching Cho to be included in a local history? Give us a break, Frank!

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

So Zhoa En-Lai has taken a picture with some Hung Mun big wigs, what has this got to do with your statement below?

Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.

Sorry, but I don't have your wild kind of imagination, I need some evidence.

[extrajoseph]

Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.

Frank,

You made the above statement and you said you still have a copy, show us what he wrote then. Show us how Primier Zhou knew about Ching Cho.

[extrajoseph]

Just as I thought, no show again!

[extrajoseph]

No Show and yet you want to test me? LOL.

[extrajoseph]

Did you know that when jeung yim changed his name to use this character 鴻 it has two links directly related to monk Ching Cho?? of course you don't know. you have to be a member of the society to understand the reasoning behind it.

I think you have to first show us Jeung Yim was a Hung Mun member and he changed his name for Hung Mun reasons. Otherwise it is just your hearsay and it is too secret for us non-members.

[extrajoseph]

I don't know whether he was or not, you reckon he was, so you have to show us when and how he became one. Your claim that he changed his name to Great Goose Hung Sing for a Hung Mun reason should be based on evidence and not on just that you said so.