More Western Lies and propaganda on Libya! LOL!

[Hardwork108]

This is hilarious. I am sure there will be some who will rationalize this, but hey, it is a "free world"...LOL!

The BBC showing scenes of jubilation at Gaddafi's downfall, but he scenes are from some square in India....LOL,LOL,LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=R_-lzI8I0_0



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[David Jamieson]

I honestly feel that most of those Arab nations are out of control dictatorships that should probably have the sovereignty that was given to them after the fall of the ottoman empire rescinded and control returned to post WW1 situations.

I think it's long overdue that Qaddafi be removed. He's a supporter of terrorism around the world and ordered the deaths of some 270 people for sure in the Lockerbie, Scotland flight bombing which he paid out 3.5 billion in compensation to all the families as is the Arab way.

Meh. Help the rebels take it and start a new deal in the area. Get rid of ALL the dictators and once they are all scrubbed and the people have some sense of security and identity and harmony, then we can turn an eye to Saudi Arabia and it's extremists.

The whole region is gonna have to suffer while this is done. That's how it is. I'd like to see terrorism and the funding of it and all the greasy oil stuff come to an end and that means simply putting the power of it into the peoples hands whilst taking it away from dictator the likes of Qadaffi.

no sympathy for anyone but the innocents who may get caught in the crossfire. Qaddafi is a goner. that's that and if you don't like it, take it up with NATO. Write a letter or something.

[SimonM]

Though I don't support the NATO incursion into Libya, which I saw as being yet another oil driven action in North Africa (where is help for Syria?) I have to say,

no shedding any tears for Quadafi.

If he's your ideal of freedom and democracy, that might explain why you have such a problem with the "freemason controlled" version, you know, where there are democratic elections and freedoms.

[David Jamieson]

Though I don't support the NATO incursion into Libya, which I saw as being yet another oil driven action in North Africa (where is help for Syria?) I have to say,

no shedding any tears for Quadafi.

If he's your ideal of freedom and democracy, that might explain why you have such a problem with the "freemason controlled" version, you know, where there are democratic elections and freedoms.

I am starting to lean towards Incursions into ALL those countries and removal of ALL these ****ant kings and dictators. Just scrub em, start again.

It would behoove us to be very careful of who gets power without actually placing someone into power. That never works, I think we know that.

whining on behalf of dictators and ****ant monarchs is quite weird, I agree.

[Hardwork108]

I honestly feel that most of those Arab nations are out of control dictatorships that should probably have the sovereignty that was given to them after the fall of the ottoman empire rescinded and control returned to post WW1 situations.

Most of the dictatorships that you are talking about have been installed/supported by the same countries that are trying to remove them now. Why? Because they are moving their agenda of One World Global Government (read: dictatorship)along to the next stage, not because they care about the citizens of those nations.

These same controlling countries were also behind the Military Coup d'tetas that removed Democratically elected governments from power in certain Lain American countries and replaced them with cut throat dictators, who were one way or the other removed or got rid off, after serving their purposes of endebting one of the richest continents on the planet to the same countries that had placed those dictators in power.

So, I see a trend there, so should you.

I think it's long overdue that Qaddafi be removed. He's a supporter of terrorism around the world and ordered the deaths of some 270 people for sure in the Lockerbie, Scotland flight bombing which he paid out 3.5 billion in compensation to all the families as is the Arab way.

If you research Lockerbie then you will come along investigation to points to the CIA as the instigators of that tragedy.

It seems that Kaddafi, knowing the deal and the power that runs the world, may have implied guilt and agreed to a pay off just to be allowed to stay in power.

Meh. Help the rebels take it and start a new deal in the area. Get rid of ALL the dictators and once they are all scrubbed and the people have some sense of security and identity and harmony, then we can turn an eye to Saudi Arabia and it's extremists.

According to some, Kaddafi's Libya had a great health service (not unlike that of Cuba) and other social services. Of course, people would not know about this if all they heard was that Kaddafi the enemy of the US and Europe, was a "mad man" dictator - where have we heard that before????

The fact that the politically naive will have to accept is that the Western Intelligence agencies will have the knowledge and wealth to remove anyone from power, no matter how happy his people are. There is some good research out there on how Intelligence agencies can create instability in otherwise stabel nations.

Of course, any such research will require the researcher to think outside the box of the black and white media propaganda that tells us about the "mad dictators".

Another thing that has been said about Kaddafi is that he proposed an African gold standard currency independent of the dollar. If that is not an auto death sentence in the political realities of today, then nothing is!

Also, it seems that not only is Libya blessed with rich oil reserves, but also with gold ones too.

The whole region is gonna have to suffer while this is done. That's how it is. I'd like to see terrorism and the funding of it and all the greasy oil stuff come to an end and that means simply putting the power of it into the peoples hands whilst taking it away from dictator the likes of Qadaffi.

I believe that you, and everyone else here is being politically very naive. Do you think that nations, that is the banking cartels that own and run them, give a **** about the "democratic rights" of people in Libya or anywhere else for that matter? I mean for gods sake, most people in teh Western countries have less of these rights than they had five years ago!!! LOL!

no sympathy for anyone but the innocents who may get caught in the crossfire. Qaddafi is a goner. that's that and if you don't like it, take it up with NATO. Write a letter or something.

Lets hope that "sympathy" keeps these poor souls alive while they have gun fire and bombs raining on them and their children, because of the secret agendas of banking cartels that own your, mine and most other governments on the face of this earth........it is a pity that not enough people see the elephant in the living room, meaning that they resort to the black and white world view projected to us through our controlled media!

[Hardwork108]

Though I don't support the NATO incursion into Libya, which I saw as being yet another oil driven action in North Africa (where is help for Syria?) I have to say,

no shedding any tears for Quadafi.

Some decades ago the Shah of Iran was removed from power by a combined effort between the CIA and the British MI6. So the Shah of Iran was painted as a ruthless dictator who tortured his own people and other bla, bla.

The regime that replaced his regime was a murderous religeously fanatic one that is murdering people until today. It was and is an "enemy" of the West while the Western Multinationals have made a killing in that country.

Decades later, it turns out that the Shah of Iran was a caring patriot and was constantly improving his country's infra structure through better transportation systems, hospitals and universities.

The country had no debts and it was among the top ten economic nations in the world. This was not good for the powers in charge, so they got rid of him.

The politically naive should be aware that we are not allowed to be shown examples of good honest leadership that cares and help its own people. That is why in the rich nations of the world there are thousands living under bridges or just homeless, but no uprisings or genuine revolutions, because the "security" agencies that are supposed to "protect" us are there to control and manipulate us on behalf of banking and corporate cartels that own them and the politicians that the brain damaged amongst us look up to as "leaders".

We are constantly being programmed to accept the things as they are, and this includes all the wars (mass murders), FALSE FLAG terrorist attacks, blamed on the usual "mad men" and other injustices.

The masses are politically dumbed down almost to the point of retardness. People like me find this fact very sad.

On a positive note, there seems to be an awakening of some sorts going on, and on an international level at that. This fact could explain why wars and mayhem is being escalated by the control system to keep us trapped in fear and insecurity that makes it acceptable for us to give more of our freedoms away to the control system.

It is wake up time for the politically (and spiritually) ignorantes of this world!!!!

If he's your ideal of freedom and democracy, that might explain why you have such a problem with the "freemason controlled" version, you know, where there are democratic elections and freedoms.

I never called him my ideal. All I am saying is that it is not a good idea to believe the pot calling the kettle black, in world that our leaders are hand picked to rule us, by people we never see and one of the requirements for them to be put into power is their capacity to be dishonest psychopaths.

Again, wake up time!!!!!!

[Hardwork108]

And lets not forget the video clip that started this thread, that show scenes of jubilation at Qaddafi's downfall supposedly in Libya, when in fact it was filmed in INDIA....lol!

Yes guys, bury your heads in the sand and ignore that you have been lied to yet again by your psychopathic authorities and put it down to a "mistake"...lol

[David Jamieson]

Blame the victims?

I don't consider Wahabists or radical Islam victims. I consider them my enemy.
I don't have an issue with crushing the enemies of men.

Pretty much every single dictator in the middle east is an enemy to us and others and a pain in the ass for the world.

I am ALL for getting them out of power as soon as possible.

Dude, you are eating from the charred part. Your line about how we are all stupid and duped while you are wise to the scene is quite ironic. You are giving buy in to the enemies words. You have bought into their lies and deceptions and their attempts to continue to terrorize and oppress.

I'm on this side. I will stay on this side and I will never see eye to eye with religious fundamentalist murderers.

I don't have an issue with OUR secret organizations doing dirty work on our behalf to get rid of these scum of the earth. Hard to watch sometimes yes, especially when an innocent goes down because they got in the way or a field op screwed up, but you know what, I'm a grown man, I understand that war exists and that's how it goes.

Who's head is in the sand now oh terrorist apologist?

[Taixuquan99]

Political Islam in the middle east has support because there is no political alternative.

There is no political alternative because the cold war destroyed the left in most of the middle east, leaving far right ruling parties supported by the Western powers.

By supporting them, we support no alternatives, which supports terrorists.

We like to say the middle east is a mess, perpetual war. Europe was exactly the same until after WWII. Liberal democracy is not the key to the western peace, nukes are. Liberal democracy was around for quite a while before the peace in Europe began, yet it began immediately after we had nuclear arsenals.

The West merely exports their wars these days, they aren't actually involved in any less of them than anyone else. By having nukes, invasion becomes highly unlikely, so we export our wars these days.

Ghadaffi is in the news because he and we don't get along, not because he's one iota different than our political allies in the region.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think there was ever any sort of open minded liberal leaning thought at all in the middle east politically speaking outside of Israel. Not since Akbar the great has there been open mindedness and tolerance towards liberal views and ways.

The people's throughout the region don't actually know any better than Kings and princes ruling them for the most part and now this whole Arab Spring thing is showing people that they actually do have some power.

It's fascinating. It's also a pain in the ass back here at home because in muti-cultural countries that hold many of the refugees and cats offs from these countries have both factions within them and we have to deal with the scenarios playing out in political rants and demonstrations and protests in our streets.

[bawang]

islamic culture is very dominant and demanding, and does not, will not show gratitude to the western world's "tolerance"

[SimonM]

[atheistrant] Israel is just as all the rest. I don't care the religion, states founded in religion are problem states. Hell, even Sri Lanka has... issues... because of clashes between the Buddhist majority and the oppressed Hindu minority.

Yes, even Buddhism isn't immune to religious dickery. [/atheistrant]

[bawang]

if we all bow down before the immortal god emperor, this would not be problem.

[Taixuquan99]

I don't think there was ever any sort of open minded liberal leaning thought at all in the middle east politically speaking outside of Israel. Not since Akbar the great has there been open mindedness and tolerance towards liberal views and ways.

You are discounting the cold war as a player. When liberal thought gained ground in Iran Britain, the U.S. and the Shah killed it. Forever. The experiences in other countries in the region were similar. We, the West, played a very active role in these choices.

Polls in the early 2000s showed that most of the supporters of political Islam in the middle east did not poll as being particularly pious or religious, and that the more pious, the less likely to support such groups. This is because political Islam, unlike the left, cannot be attacked the same way, just as Christian political movements cannot be attacked by officials in speech without risking political careers, so it became the only legitimate political association left to counter the ruling parties.

Again, before the bomb, Europe was always at war. Liberal democracy is not the source of our peace, just as the middle east is not always the source of the weapons used to make war in the middle east. We endorsed war in the middle east when Saddam was ours, we endorsed election rigging in Iran, not for the good of the region.

Funny how when one area prospers, it espouses higher values than it could before, when it was fighting for its life. Just as the enlightened Islamic past gained an empire by the sword, so did the West, so does China. We benefit every day off of the chaos in the middle east, our prosperity is tied to their poverty, and we all know it.

Bawang is right, if we cannot accept the cost of empire, that's a problem. The idea that we can fix the Middle East is a major part of the problem. The fact that we don't understand why we don't want it fixed is another.

Democratic empire is a new approach to an old lesson in cognitive disonance. Fortunately, we have the bomb, so we won't likely be dismantled by rivals at our point of fatal imperial overstretch. Again, if we're the peaceful ones, it's because of the bomb and nothing else, not Jesus or liberal democracy or lack of monarchs. When we're not an empire anymore, we'll be Italy, except with cowprint fashions.

The people's throughout the region don't actually know any better than Kings and princes ruling them for the most part and now this whole Arab Spring thing is showing people that they actually do have some power.

In Libya, because we have a beef with Ghadaffi. It's waaay too early to say what we'd do about this kind of revolt throughout the region long-term. And the people there have been educated in democracies, even if their elections are stolen from them EVERY TIME. It's not ignorance, it's the fact that no one, including Canada, the U.S. and the rest of the Western powers has so far had the slightest inclination to stop backing the far right ruling powers for our own benefit.

Additionally, the only relevant democracy is one with sovereignty, and we've pretty much shown we don't like that.

Fundamentalist Islam is a result of our advantage in the region, it came about when that advantage began to wane, and it is obviously dangerous, but the solution is removing secular support for it, and that doesn't favor us, either, because that means serious questions about whether the leadership will be our bast@rds.

[David Jamieson]

I think Iran, the Shah, the US and GB were basically the big accessible territory that the US held in the region and it was a gate way to great wealth for both states.
When the shah was toppled, the US effectively "lost" Iran as a resource supplier, trade partner and military strategic partner that kept Russia at bay in the cold war.

I don't discount it entirely, it was a huge pulling of the pin when that happened.

Iran isn't an Arab nation though, it recognizes itself as Persian/Farsi and the form of Islam it practices predominantly is Shia. Since it has become a theocracy, it has still remained very right wing political and still doesn't allow for the sprouting of western liberal thought really and crushes ideas of democracy. I think that much is clear, so same/same on the real politique front.

The previous War in Afghanistan, various interests running around arming the Taliban in it's primordial form and the constant onslaught of foreigners trampling their armies across the region is of course a problem.

Israel is in fact the only actual democratic nation in the region and quite frankly, even America can't get democracy right and they've been trying for more than a couple of centuries it is naive to think that any of these highly tribal regions will undertake to form unified and nationalistic democracies.

I think there are people who can accept the price of empire and that causes further division in liberal democracies as they exist because a portion of the population understands and bites the bullet and a portion just can't swallow it.

But those who can't swallow it still drive their cars to work, still import, still consume and don't take into consideration other ways of acquiring those things and meanwhile what's being done is fueling a lot of economic benefit.

War doesn't help smooth things and is the most unfortunate aspect of the strategy that has been undertaken. The most unevenly brokered peace is better than the most just war.

It would be nice to find diplomatic solutions or to grow into normalized relations. I will remain somewhat optimistic about it despite the growth and acceleration of it over the course of our lifetimes.

It will take greater minds than mine to get through all this. That's for sure.