This is Pak Mei Master Simon Lui Long Chun

[TenTigers]

Great vids, as always, Alex.
I would like to see more of Lam Wing-Fei's Kwongsai Jook Lum Ji Nam Tong Long P'ai from you. Your videos are the best representatives of the style out there.

[Indrafist]

I word on the "sunken chest" thing that is so prevelant in southern arts like PM, SPM, LY and more.
It's not solely the provedance of TCMA, boxing has it too.
In another thread I posted pics of boxers like Marciano, Louis and Tyson that used that "hunched back".
While there can be obvious medical issues from that ( the "mantid posture" that many older SPM master develop for example), the power production and reception is well documented.
I think that some just OVER due it, which can be counter-productive.
There is a "hunch" in one posture when one "sinks the chest" and "rolls over the shoulders" for protection ( as some boxers do) but it should be natural and not forced and depending on bone structure, some will have a noticable one and some far less BUT none should be exagerrated to the point of discomfort.

Remember that the human is UNIFORM, we ALL have the same bodies and power is produced the same from one individual to another ( using the same methods).
Physics and bio-mechanics dictate, not anything else.

Very well stated.

[Yum Cha]

Hey dude
I like that clip you posted of the form, nice, smooth and fluid with "ging".
As for the short power demo clips.
Meh...
I don't think its possible to show short power in LIGHT sparring, kind of self-defeating know what I mean?
The live demo was fine.
How's training going?

Hey Ronin,
Yea, there seems to be a lot of interest in seeing short power in application, I feel a challenge to try and capture some...I guess this spring when we bust out the cameras again... You happy seeing some kid get pushed around, or you want to see someone get hit? <grin>

I thought the little demo at the end of the longer clip showed the defender sticking his attacker enough to make him crunch up, and that was just a touch...

I know what the issue is, using that power is a bit like driving a turbo. You stand on the gas, but there is a little delay before the power kicks in. But as you get better, that delay gets shorter, and you get better at anticipating and timing its delivery.

That's one of the benefits of Pak Mei forms training, is getting that mechanic and timing down. Techniques aside, its the deeper mechanic of building that kind of power delivery.

Training, ah, full on 'old man' style... Leg stretches, waist work, arm and chest flexibility, prone core exercises and some shaolin soft form every morning, and a wee bit of hardcore technique repititions. Kungs... High rep, low weight, low impact. At dawn most mornings. Spring is just here and I'm keen for some workouts down at the beach. Running about 195lbs now, fit as I've been for probably 10 years.

I lost one of my best boys to the UK, London, and another one going soon. They are settling in there, met with Dave and Ka Wai, hope they represent. <grin>. We are a bit different, you know...

And, hows life in the Great White North? Still chilling on the training, or getting into new stuff?

[Yum Cha]

Hunching....

Say for example we take our arms and hold them together in front of our bodies, palms up.. forearms together, from elbow to wrist. To me, that is the proper amount of shoulder roll, keeping in mind that the elbows must be able do drop back against the body.

But, as your stance becomes deeper, at the waist, you crunch your stomach as opposed to leaning forward to keep your balance. That crunching of the stomach to drop lower on a deeper stance is one thing that makes the back 'hunch', but its the result of the belly, not the shoulders, to my mind at least.

[R]

Hey Ronin,
Yea, there seems to be a lot of interest in seeing short power in application, I feel a challenge to try and capture some...I guess this spring when we bust out the cameras again... You happy seeing some kid get pushed around, or you want to see someone get hit? <grin>

I thought the little demo at the end of the longer clip showed the defender sticking his attacker enough to make him crunch up, and that was just a touch...

I know what the issue is, using that power is a bit like driving a turbo. You stand on the gas, but there is a little delay before the power kicks in. But as you get better, that delay gets shorter, and you get better at anticipating and timing its delivery.

That's one of the benefits of Pak Mei forms training, is getting that mechanic and timing down. Techniques aside, its the deeper mechanic of building that kind of power delivery.

Training, ah, full on 'old man' style... Leg stretches, waist work, arm and chest flexibility, prone core exercises and some shaolin soft form every morning, and a wee bit of hardcore technique repititions. Kungs... High rep, low weight, low impact. At dawn most mornings. Spring is just here and I'm keen for some workouts down at the beach. Running about 195lbs now, fit as I've been for probably 10 years.

I lost one of my best boys to the UK, London, and another one going soon. They are settling in there, met with Dave and Ka Wai, hope they represent. <grin>. We are a bit different, you know...

And, hows life in the Great White North? Still chilling on the training, or getting into new stuff?

Yum Cha... nice to see your guys are expanding to the northern hemisphere. Are they actually in London or anywhere ****her up my way? I know a few BM guys in London but the only club out my way is in Birmingham which is well out of my way.

R

[Yum Cha]

London for the most part as I understand it. Early days yet.

[Chunli78]

I was told that CLC had taught many students, in many different ways. If you would put all the students next to each other they will all different from each other. He might have done it on purpose to teach each student different. Some were fortunate to have private lessons from him, some even lived with him and took care of him and his sons. Does this means that they learned it all? Nobody will know.

Who will know what is the real Pak Mei? Only Pak Mei himself. We will never know what the real thing is, because it was back then passed on one student, so it was told. Is that true as well?

A master never reveals 100% of his skills, maybe there are now, but in the old times, I don't think so. There is always some things that he took with him in the grave. Even if a master taught 10 people exactly the same, for sure there will still be differences due to different persons and interpretations.
Every students learns from his master in the correct way, because he learned it from his master. Every teacher has good intention to pass on his knowledge to his students. Who are we to judge and say that is incorrect. Were we there to witness it?
Only the master knows it, maybe not all. Do we all have this perfect memory and remember everything? Maybe yes, maybe no.
It's good to share and discuss knowledge to enhance it, and it's best to respect each others martial arts knowledge and skills. Everybody is good in their own way.
The kungfu in martial arts is not to use it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And, hows life in the Great White North? Still chilling on the training, or getting into new stuff?

Nothing new under the sun compadre
I've tried to get back into hard sparring but that "inner ear" thing I got is horrid, get dizzy spells way too much...
So doing the bag work, the pad work, conditioning, etc,etc...
Such is life...

[CFT]

I was told that CLC had taught many students, in many different ways. If you would put all the students next to each other they will all different from each other. He might have done it on purpose to teach each student different. Some were fortunate to have private lessons from him, some even lived with him and took care of him and his sons. Does this means that they learned it all? Nobody will know.

Who will know what is the real Pak Mei? Only Pak Mei himself. We will never know what the real thing is, because it was back then passed on one student, so it was told. Is that true as well?

Gah! You could substitute Wing Chun for Bak Mei and Yip Man for CLC and it would not sound any different.

[TenTigers]

I was told that CLC had taught many students, in many different ways. If you would put all the students next to each other they will all different from each other. He might have done it on purpose to teach each student different. Some were fortunate to have private lessons from him, some even lived with him and took care of him and his sons. Does this means that they learned it all? Nobody will know.

Who will know what is the real Pak Mei? Only Pak Mei himself. We will never know what the real thing is, because it was back then passed on one student, so it was told. Is that true as well?

A master never reveals 100% of his skills, maybe there are now, but in the old times, I don't think so. There is always some things that he took with him in the grave. Even if a master taught 10 people exactly the same, for sure there will still be differences due to different persons and interpretations.
Every students learns from his master in the correct way, because he learned it from his master. Every teacher has good intention to pass on his knowledge to his students. Who are we to judge and say that is incorrect. Were we there to witness it?
Only the master knows it, maybe not all. Do we all have this perfect memory and remember everything? Maybe yes, maybe no.
It's good to share and discuss knowledge to enhance it, and it's best to respect each others martial arts knowledge and skills. Everybody is good in their own way.
The kungfu in martial arts is not to use it.

You see this often. There are students and there are students. Two students can learn side by side from the same teacher, and one will get the hand, and the other won't.

In TCMA I have seen this especially true.
Some students will ponder and think, while others don't.
Until you experience it, you won't realize just how important the mental part of the training is.
Ever wonder how sometimes, when you spend time away from your teacher, you make leaps in progress, or breakthroughs?
This comes when you think about what you have been taught, rather than simply drilling technique over and over.
Not sure how or why it happens, it just does.

[Golden Arms]

You see this often. There are students and there are students. Two students can learn side by side from the same teacher, and one will get the hand, and the other won't.

In TCMA I have seen this especially true.
Some students will ponder and think, while others don't.
Until you experience it, you won't realize just how important the mental part of the training is.
Ever wonder how sometimes, when you spend time away from your teacher, you make leaps in progress, or breakthroughs?
This comes when you think about what you have been taught, rather than simply drilling technique over and over.
Not sure how or why it happens, it just does.

Agreed TenTigers,

Being present and aware plays a big role in training. Unfortunately this aspect of it is much less exciting sounding to work on, and many let it fall by the wayside.

[Indrafist]

You see this often. There are students and there are students. Two students can learn side by side from the same teacher, and one will get the hand, and the other won't.

In TCMA I have seen this especially true.
Some students will ponder and think, while others don't.
Until you experience it, you won't realize just how important the mental part of the training is.
Ever wonder how sometimes, when you spend time away from your teacher, you make leaps in progress, or breakthroughs?
This comes when you think about what you have been taught, rather than simply drilling technique over and over.
Not sure how or why it happens, it just does.

Very well said.
Some students actually do better with a bad teacher than a good one, because a bad teacher, if the student has real potential, will force the student to develop. Sometimes good teachers can be so 'good' that they contain their students potential.
There's the alchemy in TMA, it's really all about communion between the art and the student. If that communion is there, the teacher becomes almost incidental: which no true teacher would ever deny for their students.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Learning and understanding aren't the same thing.
Anyone can learn math, not everyone can understand it and the difference is huge.
Same thing for TCMA.
I believe it is because not everyone has the right mental frame for every system.
Some systems require a laid back person and others a potential sociopath.

[Hendrik]

in my understanding, Chinese martial art learning is complex due to some possibility:

1, the sifu doesnt have a clear handling of the issue. one cannot teach others what one dont know.

2, the sifu is purposely not teaching the Handling key or control point of the issue. for example, all the teaching of holding the spine, the shoulder.....etc could be easily and clearly resolve and handle if one knows what the key needs to achieve. instead of trying to do 100000000000 things proper and mislead into different things and then everyone argue due to everyone thinking what they know is the right and others are wrong.

3, after one knows and have a clear handling of the issue. one's state or level will get deeper as the kung fu get deeper or the proper training proceed.

due to different level, only those who is at higher level could know what is in their level or a level below. the lower level person cannot comprehend what a higher level is unless one is there.

and often, the lower level guy due to ego, arguing the higher level is wrong. and the mess of un ended arguing start within the same school after the GM died.


These are serious stuffs which make TCMA and IMA extinct.




For example, this hunching stuffs. those are really simple stuffs but critical.
those who doesnt know it clearly will never get to advance level due to they are not sure what is it for. and people do not like to talk about it because ego and fear of lost face or purposely do not want others to know. Same situation is all TCMA style. In my opinion.


and then the Fajing stuffs. we all will others we know how to fajing in our own way. is that fajing? how many of us dare to face reality?

[Yum Cha]

Gah! You could substitute Wing Chun for Bak Mei and Yip Man for CLC and it would not sound any different.

Ai Ya! Ok, I can understand how you might think so, but let me explain the significance of that statement to Pak Mei.

Firstly, wing chun is a codified style, created to teach a revolutionary army quickly, blah, blah, blah....in a broad stroke.

Pak Mei on the other hand is a synthesis of a number of different styles and techniques, bound together with a core body mechanic. Many of CLCs students were already high level fighers or teachers, the core body mechanic to generate power can be used within a number of styles, or at least using their fundamentals.

The other issue, is that the forms were never held sacred by CLC, he modified them over time, and for different individuals, and he encouraged his students to create their own.

So, when Pak Mei people start talking about right and wrong, you can see, it gets complicated, and confusing between core principles and external applications....

Hendrik, I liked your comment about knowing what you need to achieve, and working back from there. It involves a bit of free flowing application to get to understand that issue properly.

You keep alluding to something you want to say about the hunching, why don't you just come out with it?