Guandong Quan Mystery

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Uhg! That was horrible. I've seen several videos from this series; they have no soul to them. Every one of them is performed the exact same way. No real power, stiff, choppy and too fast. No tempo change. It looks like they're just running through the sets as fast as possible.

Yeah, the performance is beyond bad. it was the only one I could find to post for comparison though. I don't know the form, I am trying to determine when this one was created, and if it is a legit part of the Tai Tzu system.

If it's not a legit part of the Tai Tzu, I an not adding it to my collection because I hate learning new forms. I only know the forms I absolutely have to know.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Yeah, the performance is beyond bad. it was the only one I could find to post for comparison though. I don't know the form, I am trying to determine when this one was created, and if it is a legit part of the Tai Tzu system.

If it's not a legit part of the Tai Tzu, I an not adding it to my collection because I hate learning new forms. I only know the forms I absolutely have to know.

far as I know this set shown is a recreation made in the Qing Dynasty when the other more well known sets were made. It;s not the old original set.

One version of the 2 sets can be found in the Shanxi Hong Quan system.
another version can be found in Hebei province as part of the Liu He Quan system.
Another version, some say the most accurate version, is part of Wudang Mt. Hong Quan.

[Howard]

Another version, some say the most accurate version, is part of Wudang Mt. Hong Quan.

Really ? Wudang Hong Quan is from the greater Xuzhou area in the central plains. such as Feng county and Peixian county - it is likely younger than Liuhe Quan, Yanqing Quan and Shanxi Hong Quan which have same named forms.

The Legend: During the Song dynasty there was some Wudang Mt Daoist lay disciple who was surnamed 'Hong' and had apparently been motivated by the stories of Song Taizu's armies which would be split into East, west etc...then the boxing took attributes along those lines...

The Closer reality: Zhang Dongshu (1856-1933) was fond of MA when he was young and studied with his father Zhang Wanqing (an expert of so-called Wudang Hong Quan) and learnt from many teachers/boxer friends (in those days many boxers around the Yihe tuan and other rebellious activities) ... afterwhich he established the Wudang Hongquan system.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Really ? Wudang Hong Quan is from the greater Xuzhou area in the central plains. such as Feng county and Peixian county - it is likely younger than Liuhe Quan, Yanqing Quan and Shanxi Hong Quan which have same named forms.

The Legend: During the Song dynasty there was some Wudang Mt Daoist lay disciple who was surnamed 'Hong' and had apparently been motivated by the stories of Song Taizu's armies which would be split into East, west etc...then the boxing took attributes along those lines...

The Closer reality: Zhang Dongshu (1856-1933) was fond of MA when he was young and studied with his father Zhang Wanqing (an expert of so-called Wudang Hong Quan) and learnt from many teachers/boxer friends (in those days many boxers around the Yihe tuan and other rebellious activities) ... afterwhich he established the Wudang Hongquan system.

Thanks for posting that information. Yeah, the emphasis in what I posted was on "SOME say", ha. As we all well know how it can be in solving Chinese puzzles.

[LFJ]

Does the encyclopedia show these forms?

I have heard of the 13 famous spear set, and originally did confuse it with the more common Shaolin one. I have never seen it though, and never found anyone who knows is.

I never heard if the Linglongquan, only Lao Hong Quan, which he exchanged for training in the softer skills right before he went into the military.

Yes, the encyclopedia shows both. The history bit tells the same story. They were both part of the material ZKY exchanged with Shaolin. But the encyclopedia is also the only reference I know for these.

From the introduction it appears the spear was a whole set, but Linglongquan was just loose techniques. Because it says, in the Linglongquan intro, he taught them the skills he was good at, particularly his Changquan and Linglongquan skills. But then it was Abbot Fuju who arranged the techniques into a 33 posture set named Shaolin Linglongquan.

[LFJ]

Another version, some say the most accurate version, is part of Wudang Mt. Hong Quan.

Really ? Wudang Hong Quan is from the greater Xuzhou area in the central plains. such as Feng county and Peixian county - it is likely younger than Liuhe Quan, Yanqing Quan and Shanxi Hong Quan which have same named forms.

"Most accurate" doesn't necessarily mean "the original"...

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Yes, the encyclopedia shows both. The history bit tells the same story. They were both part of the material ZKY exchanged with Shaolin. But the encyclopedia is also the only reference I know for these.

From the introduction it appears the spear was a whole set, but Linglongquan was just loose techniques. Because it says, in the Linglongquan intro, he taught them the skills he was good at, particularly his Changquan and Linglongquan skills. But then it was Abbot Fuju who arranged the techniques into a 33 posture set named Shaolin Linglongquan.

Is there anyway I could get you to scan all the pages related to these sets and e-mail them to me?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Also, what else is in the Shaolin Encyclopedia that is related to Zhao Kuang Yin?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Really ? Wudang Hong Quan is from the greater Xuzhou area in the central plains. such as Feng county and Peixian county - it is likely younger than Liuhe Quan, Yanqing Quan and Shanxi Hong Quan which have same named forms.

The Legend: During the Song dynasty there was some Wudang Mt Daoist lay disciple who was surnamed 'Hong' and had apparently been motivated by the stories of Song Taizu's armies which would be split into East, west etc...then the boxing took attributes along those lines...

Interesting. So were these sets absorbed from ZKY's material and preserved here? Were they developed out of his techniques only? or are they unrelated all together?

[LFJ]

Is there anyway I could get you to scan all the pages related to these sets and e-mail them to me?

Well, I have an electronic version with each page in an odd PDG format which uses the BooX Viewer program to display the pages as a book.

I don't know if there's a way to convert the files to PDF or something, but if you download that program I can send the individual page files.

Also, what else is in the Shaolin Encyclopedia that is related to Zhao Kuang Yin?

I'll have to have a deeper look, but as I remember there was Linglongquan, Shisan Mingqiang, and Liangjiegun (two-section stick).

That weapon is unique. It says Zhao's Panlonggun (coiling dragon stick) was broken in half in combat. So he asked someone to attach the two equal length pieces with a few rings and make a new weapon. There is a whole set shown with pictures for it.

I imagine it would be kind of awkward though, not quit like a three-section stick.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Well, I have an electronic version with each page in an odd PDG format which uses the BooX Viewer program to display the pages as a book.

I don't know if there's a way to convert the files to PDF or something, but if you download that program I can send the individual page files.



I'll have to have a deeper look, but as I remember there was Linglongquan, Shisan Mingqiang, and Liangjiegun (two-section stick).

That weapon is unique. It says Zhao's Panlonggun (coiling dragon stick) was broken in half in combat. So he asked someone to attach the two equal length pieces with a few rings and make a new weapon. There is a whole set shown with pictures for it.

I imagine it would be kind of awkward though, not quit like a three-section stick.

I have no problem downloading the reader. Where can I find it?
If you would be so kind, send the files to royaldragonusa@yahoo.com.

Does the Shaolin Encyclopedia mention Lao Hong Quan or Yuan Houquan at all?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Well, I have an electronic version with each page in an odd PDG format which uses the BooX Viewer program to display the pages as a book.

I don't know if there's a way to convert the files to PDF or something, but if you download that program I can send the individual page files.



I'll have to have a deeper look, but as I remember there was Linglongquan, Shisan Mingqiang, and Liangjiegun (two-section stick).

That weapon is unique. It says Zhao's Panlonggun (coiling dragon stick) was broken in half in combat. So he asked someone to attach the two equal length pieces with a few rings and make a new weapon. There is a whole set shown with pictures for it.

I imagine it would be kind of awkward though, not quit like a three-section stick.

The story I always heard was that the lengths were unequal when he broke the end off of it.

This weapon (not the set though)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79yDn7kimVM

[ShaolinDiva]

Yes, the encyclopedia shows both. The history bit tells the same story. They were both part of the material ZKY exchanged with Shaolin. But the encyclopedia is also the only reference I know for these.

From the introduction it appears the spear was a whole set, but Linglongquan was just loose techniques. Because it says, in the Linglongquan intro, he taught them the skills he was good at, particularly his Changquan and Linglongquan skills. But then it was Abbot Fuju who arranged the techniques into a 33 posture set named Shaolin Linglongquan.

Hi,

I'm interested in this so called Shaolin encyclopedia that is referenced . Can you please tell me more about it? Is it the same as the Shaolin books that were donated to US Congress by the abbot ?


Thanks!

[GeneChing]

The 'Shaolin Encyclopedia' is our nickname for Shaolinsi Wushu Baike Quanshu (少林寺武術百科全書) by Shi Deqian. See my article The Shaolin Scribe: Shi Deqian and the Shaolin Encyclopedia from our Shaolin Special 2007.

[ShaolinDiva]

The 'Shaolin Encyclopedia' is our nickname for Shaolinsi Wushu Baike Quanshu (少林寺武術百科全書) by Shi Deqian. See my article The Shaolin Scribe: Shi Deqian and the Shaolin Encyclopedia from our Shaolin Special 2007.

thank you so much Gene! I'm reading it now. I need to buy your book .