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Thread: Luk Dim Boon Gwan

  1. #1
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    Luk Dim Boon Gwan

    Someone just posted this on the German forum.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xm0e...layer_embedded

  2. #2
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    Nice set, and pretty well executed imho
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    Someone just posted this on the German forum.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xm0e...layer_embedded
    Thanks ! good stuff.

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    It's my understanding that the form in the video is a bit different than what Philipp teaches, but the guy seems to be putting in some good training. Just as long as all the ideas are there, the "choreography" doesn't matter that much.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    .....but the guy seems to be putting in some good training. Just as long as all the ideas are there, the "choreography" doesn't matter that much.
    Agree, it's my understanding that the pole was never really a true form anyway, just a set of movements that one could organize anyway they chose.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by WC1277 View Post
    Agree, it's my understanding that the pole was never really a true form anyway, just a set of movements that one could organize anyway they chose.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    True. Sifu Augustine Fong connected the movements into a form for demo or practice purposes.
    His advanced students know the form and many others know the one and two person drills.
    One of Moy Yat's NYC student learned the form from sifu and won a weapons competition some years ago. One of sigung Ho's Canadian students is also very good with the pole.

    I respect Bayer learing the kwan given his own challenge.

    joy

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by WC1277 View Post
    Agree, it's my understanding that the pole was never really a true form anyway, just a set of movements that one could organize anyway they chose.
    well said and i agree
    Fut Hong Wing Chun Kuen (a.k.a. Invisible Buddha Fist Wing Chun), Northern New Jersey
    IBFWC @ youtube
    BBL28888 @ youtube


    "Everybody's gotta plan, until they get hit!" - Mike Tyson

    "Rule number 1: Don't get hit. Rule number 2: Remember rule number one."- Sifu Joseph Ng

    "Pure or Impure Wing Chun, whatever beats an opponent is good Wing Chun" - pg 50, Wing Chun Warrior: The True Tales of WCKF Master Duncan Leung

  8. #8
    Last edited by k gledhill; 09-05-2011 at 04:39 PM.

  9. #9
    Not a good video of WSL using the long pole. During that seminar the floor was very slippery. No grip for his shoes but still better than the others me thinks.

    GH

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    Not a good video of WSL using the long pole. During that seminar the floor was very slippery. No grip for his shoes but still better than the others me thinks.

    GH
    All in the details Some seem to raise and lower the pole tip several feet rather than use 'tip force' .
    Tang Yick has some fancy moves ....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    It's interesting that here is solid proof that there are very few examples of Wing Chun Pole out there in the World!

    Call it what you like, but all of these clips are not full examples of the 6.5 'form' (because there IS one imhhho) they are simply the condensed drills Ip Man selected to teach within the small spaces of the HK gwoons.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  12. #12
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    My reply to a low kick is a good fong lung cheung with the ol' long pole (which is the topic of this thread, by the way).

    The long pole may be obsolete as a weapon in today's world, but learning the basic pole exercises and learning how to fight with the pole are great ways to improve your empty hand work. Solidifying the connection between the lower and upper body, thus improving whole body coordination and movement (especially the connection between hips and elbows), pole work can end up really improving your punching power.

    And of course it's just a hell of a lot of fun to spar with the thing!

    So, anyone want to share some video material or ideas concerning the long pole?

    How about it, GlennR?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Thats the spirit G.... a conversation at last!

    I agree totally, but, heres the scenario.
    He's launched it, its too late to move back/forward..... what do you do?

    Its reality, im not asking it just to be a knob
    Like my Teacher says..."there is no time in fighting to think of such things".....

    Firstly we must have a strategy but there are too many factors to give one solid answer that fits all questions. There is no perfect world!
    If we abide by the Ving Tsun concept of Loi lau, Hoi Sung, Lat Sau Jik Chung, in the first instance it tells us to intercept the opponents movement with your own. To bring into the conversation what Sean was saying, Long Pole training increases our start speed, punching power and punching precision so this gives us the tools to meet the opponent with something that in theroy should be structurally better than what being thrown be it kick or punch.
    When somebody is kicking they are on one leg so their balance is more than 50% less than with two feet on the ground. If our timing is right, the way in which we move is right and we disrupt the opponents center of gravity then this should take the sting from the kicks. Maybe we can pre-empt it in which case the kick may not get thrown at all.
    There are difficulties in fighting a kicker because the leg is longer than the arm just as with fighting a person who is throwing arcing punches. Most systems of Ving Tsun are using Tan Sau to defend against these actions but this is bad thinking. Without LSJC and putting ourselves inside the opponents firing line then we will always get hit eventually. My Teacher also says that if things are too 50/50 then it is not good for fighting. It takes skill which is what Ving Tsun should teach us and improve but the outcome or what gets thrown is not decided until the fight is over.

    GH

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by WC1277 View Post
    While all the other arts were training in, dare I say, a 'sparring, fair fight' type of way
    You need to check yourself before you wreck yourself on this one.

    Saying longfist arts aren't dangerous just shows you've never gone up against someone who does them. There is nothing "fair" about any system that trains to fight. Perhaps you should look up the Lacey brothers, who (if memory serves right) made a name for themselves beating the stuffing out of WC guys in their younger days.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by WC1277 View Post
    It'd be nice if more chunners understood distances in real application.
    What is it you feel that most do not understand exactly? And why do you think that is?
    WC was designed for close range, nothing else without weapons. It really is genius IMO. While all the other arts were training in, dare I say, a 'sparring, fair fight' type of way, the creators realized how unrealistic distance fighting is.
    While it's nice to notice your enthusiasm for wing chun, your assessment of "all other arts" is completely off base.

    For example, in a sparring or unrestricted fighting environment one of the very first things people get a feel for is distance. And boxing seeks to get into the same range as wing chun for striking, as do most hand oriented arts. Boxing follows the jab in stepping towards the opponents back foot to get into range. The jab sets up the next strikes. The available response is limited by the construct of the human body and using hands mainly as the offensive weapons.

    Typically a boxer with 2 years of experience will be able to control the distance in a fight with much more skill than a 2 year wing chun fighter who primarily trains chi sau. The reason for this is that the chi sau fighter never trains the entry into the bridge for the most part from an unrestricted fighting perspective.

    The most important point in all of wing chun: go in to the center immediately upon no contact.
    Yes this is a universal truth in wing chun. Sifu Garrett Gee says that we live or die on the centerline.
    That pretty much means, in real application since prolonged contact is rare, all the time. Rushing the opponent so to speak so as not to allow a MT kick to happen. And even if it does, so what.
    Prolonged contact in real application with someone skilled in wrestling takedowns, judo throws, and ground fighting is certainly not rare. They train to be able to take someone down who rushes in on the centerline. Yes getting inside the perimeter of a kick can diffuse it's force. However, leg kicks are harder to prevent.

    One other consideration. Do you realize how hard it is to hit a boxing opponent with good bob and weave skills and good footwork? Yes we work to control centerline and their center of gravity, but that is not a given by any means.

    Fong Sifu also says that your skill level can get to a point where you can 'feel' the opponents intent without contact before he even moves. I have felt it a few times and it's the result of understanding timing which IMO nothing teaches better than Chi Sao. You train with contact to be able to 'feel' without contact at the highest skill level.
    Actually one of the first things you start to pick up when you spar consistenly is being able to spot indicators of an opponents intent without contact before he moves. There are little indicator moves which trigger intent. There are also from positions as you get to learn a limited set of motions that are available from a given stance and distance.

    Trained fighters get to this level regardless of whether they do so training wing chun or another art.

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