Building strength the TCMA way

[sanjuro_ronin]

Building strength is CRUCIAL in MA.
There is just no way around it and at every level, strength is needed.
And not just in MA, in every day life.
Not a day goes by that we don't have to lift or push or pull something.
Strength is vital and indespensible.

There is only ONE way to build strength and that is to progressive resistence.
In short, we get stronger by making our muscles stronger and they get stronger by having to do more ( exert muscular force) than they are used to.
Progressive Resistence means just that.
NO ONE disputes that.
What IS disputed at times is the means to create that resistence.

There are only TWO ways to create resistence for the muscles to get stronger and that is:
With "weight": Stone, wood, metal, body, any object that is heavy.
Without weights: this is when muscular tension is used to "activate" the strength building response and it typically and commonly called "tension" and it can be isometric ( not moving) or iso-kinetic ( moving tension).

Both ways have merits and both was have cons.

The pros of using a weight is obvious:
Resistence can be measured and different levels of intensity can be used.
Progression can be measured.
The cons are minimal:
There can be a danger to using weight that is heavier then we can handle.
The availibility of training space and equipment.

The pros of "no weights":
No need of equipment and can be done anywhere.
No danger that comes with using equipment.
The cons are numerous though:
No way to measure intensity besides 100% ( you can tell if you are exerting 50% or 80% only if you are tensing 100% or not).
No way to measure progression.
No "unbias" way to measure intensity.
Isometric tension mainly develops strength on a static pathway.
etc.

While some can state that the "bulking" up of muscles is also a "con", they tend to not realize that the EXCESSIVE bulking is based on diet and not so much the Strength building protocol one is following.
They also tend to not realize that there are strength building protocols that focus on "pure strength" only and that do not "induce" muscle growth.

The "too bulky" argument is a false one because it is based solely on the "bodybuilder" view of STrength building.
People that comment that weight training makes on "bulky and slow" seem to ignore the muscular builds of sprinters, track athletes, american football players and the vast majority of pro athletes.

In short, to build strength for ANY physical activity ( athletic or otherwise) we must do it via progressive resistence training and that training can be done wither with "weights" ( barbells, dumbells, keetlebells, stones, own bodyweight, etc) or with "muscular tension" that is done either with no movement ( isometric) or through a given range of movement ( iso-kinetic).

[sanjuro_ronin]

So how do TCMA do it?

You will find that BOTH methods are used in TCMA.
Modern equipment is not used where in the past, stone or wooden versions of "barbells, dumbells, keetlebells", were used.
Older TCMA training manuals show pictures of weight lifting as a crucial part of strength building in TCMA of all kinds.

Then we have static stance training, progressing from BW only to weight being added on, for the development of strong legs and balance.
The lifting of sand bags, stones, wooden logs, to build all around strength.

And we also have isometic exercises being done and within forms such as the "iron wire", the various "sanjian/sam chien, sarm bo gin" forms we find iso-kinetic exercises being performed.

[MightyB]

There is another Skywalker (*cough, *sputter, *gasp)

http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/content.php

[Frost]

If anything using modern methods of external strength training alongside traditional methods is even more important in this day and age, most old time TCMA guys came from a rural background, lifting heavy things and building strength was all part of their day to day work it is not these days, thus they had a good base of strength and endurance to work from

But as with most things its about perspective, if you have never lifted weights for strength or power you might indeed think your TCMA method is superior and better and unique, but since such people have no frame of reference to judge it other than their own bias opinion no one will take your view seriously

[Fa Xing]

I have once been of the view that any form of resistance training is not necessary when you have chi...luckily I had a friend to show me not so pleasantly that that was not true.

I have since become involved with the nerdy side of strength and conditioning alongside going to school to become a chiropractic doctor. I should be getting my CSCS next month.

Anyways, I truly think that S&C while practicing martial arts are truly necessary for proper physical and mental development. If you push yourself beyond measure in training, then if the time comes for actual combat, the martial artists response will be not as stressed.

[Jimbo]

If anything using modern methods of external strength training alongside traditional methods is even more important in this day and age, most old time TCMA guys came from a rural background, lifting heavy things and building strength was all part of their day to day work it is not these days, thus they had a good base of strength and endurance to work from

This is an excellent point not often mentioned. My father and uncles grew up on the farm, worked a professional tuna boat, and did other labor their whole lives, and although I never saw any of them do any actual ST exercises, they remained impressively strong their entire lives, even into old age. Hard labor builds not only strength but physical/mental ruggedness as well. That's the kind of strength that old-time CMA practitioners had. In addition, many of those practitioners did system-specifec, specialized ST methods as well. People nowadays who do not come from such a background, cannot discount the importance of ST for their MA.

[bawang]

weight training is rarely known or taught because they were considered advanced excercises, which is ironic

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is another Skywalker (*cough, *sputter, *gasp)

http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/content.php

Using your BW is one of the progressive resistence methods with weights, the weight happens to be your body (and anything you can add to it when applicable)

[wenshu]

Using your BW is one of the progressive resistence methods with weights, the weight happens to be your body (and anything you can add to it when applicable)

I see, you weren't distinguishing between body weight vs weight training.
My fault.

[Vash]

In short, to build strength for ANY physical activity ( athletic or otherwise) we must do it via progressive resistence training and that training can be done wither with "weights" ( barbells, dumbells, keetlebells, stones, own bodyweight, etc) or with "muscular tension" that is done either with no movement ( isometric) or through a given range of movement ( iso-kinetic).

So how do TCMA do it?

You will find that BOTH methods are used in TCMA.
Modern equipment is not used where in the past, stone or wooden versions of "barbells, dumbells, keetlebells", were used.
Older TCMA training manuals show pictures of weight lifting as a crucial part of strength building in TCMA of all kinds.

Then we have static stance training, progressing from BW only to weight being added on, for the development of strong legs and balance.
The lifting of sand bags, stones, wooden logs, to build all around strength.

And we also have isometic exercises being done and within forms such as the "iron wire", the various "sanjian/sam chien, sarm bo gin" forms we find iso-kinetic exercises being performed.

This was the start of the thread. I'm thinking I missed the part where someone said "kung fu guys should fear the invincible bodybuilders."

Is the idea of training in the same way as an experienced, hypertrophy-oriented bodybuilder good for martial arts, TMA or MMA?

Of course not.

Is the idea of training using general physical preparation (overall physical health, strength, power) WITH skill-SPECIFIC work a better idea of MA?

Of course.

If the idea that ONLY skill-specific strength is needed and all other factors can be ignored is the prevalent one, then I am completely lost, and would like to see the light.

[Taixuquan99]

Is the idea of training using general physical preparation (overall physical health, strength, power) WITH skill-SPECIFIC work a better idea of MA?

Of course.

Agreed.

If the idea that ONLY skill-specific strength is needed and all other factors can be ignored is the prevalent one, then I am completely lost, and would like to see the light.

I don't think that's the idea. It's just easier to argue silly sh1t while waiting for YKW to post the next cool exercise from his repertoire.

[bawang]

hey guys, since started squatting my thighs are crushing my balls. can anyone help me

how do u guys deal with your muscular thighs crushing your balls

[ginosifu]

Building strength is CRUCIAL in MA.

The "too bulky" argument is a false one because it is based solely on the "bodybuilder" view of STrength building.
People that comment that weight training makes on "bulky and slow" seem to ignore the muscular builds of sprinters, track athletes, american football players and the vast majority of pro athletes.

I agree 100%. However, my experience with peeps who lift is 75%-80% lift improperly for MA. Many lift and get bulky, especially in their arms and shoulders. In my personal experiences, bulky arms and shoulders reduce free swinging arm rotation from the shoulder joint. The CMA I learned requires arm swing techniques such cup choy or dai fan che to swivel from the shoulder and not be "muscled thru". This "muscling thru" is the wrong type of energy for this particular technique.

Strength is very important and increasing strength thru various resistance programs is great. I can't emphasize enough on proper strength training and stretching to reduce this type of attitude of I can just lift more and get stronger so I don't have to worry about technique or style.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree 100%. However, my experience with peeps who lift is 75%-80% lift improperly for MA. Many lift and get bulky, especially in their arms and shoulders. In my personal experiences, bulky arms and shoulders reduce free swinging arm rotation from the shoulder joint. The CMA I learned requires arm swing techniques such cup choy or dai fan che to swivel from the shoulder and not be "muscled thru". This "muscling thru" is the wrong type of energy for this particular technique.

Strength is very important and increasing strength thru various resistance programs is great. I can't emphasize enough on proper strength training and stretching to reduce this type of attitude of I can just lift more and get stronger so I don't have to worry about technique or style.

ginosifu

A very good point Gino, many people only do the "bodybuilding" type of ST because that is the only one they know.
Many people are also unaware of the crucial element of stretching the muscles AFTER ST.

[YouKnowWho]

many people only do the "bodybuilding" type of ST because that is the only one they know.

"TCMA strength training" does not equal to "modern weight lifting".

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7958/canebundle.jpg

There are "general" strength that can be built up by modern weight lifting. There are "special" strength than can only be built up by TCMA strength training.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8...eheadsweep.jpg