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Thread: Building strength the TCMA way

  1. #1
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    Building strength the TCMA way

    Building strength is CRUCIAL in MA.
    There is just no way around it and at every level, strength is needed.
    And not just in MA, in every day life.
    Not a day goes by that we don't have to lift or push or pull something.
    Strength is vital and indespensible.

    There is only ONE way to build strength and that is to progressive resistence.
    In short, we get stronger by making our muscles stronger and they get stronger by having to do more ( exert muscular force) than they are used to.
    Progressive Resistence means just that.
    NO ONE disputes that.
    What IS disputed at times is the means to create that resistence.

    There are only TWO ways to create resistence for the muscles to get stronger and that is:
    With "weight": Stone, wood, metal, body, any object that is heavy.
    Without weights: this is when muscular tension is used to "activate" the strength building response and it typically and commonly called "tension" and it can be isometric ( not moving) or iso-kinetic ( moving tension).

    Both ways have merits and both was have cons.

    The pros of using a weight is obvious:
    Resistence can be measured and different levels of intensity can be used.
    Progression can be measured.
    The cons are minimal:
    There can be a danger to using weight that is heavier then we can handle.
    The availibility of training space and equipment.

    The pros of "no weights":
    No need of equipment and can be done anywhere.
    No danger that comes with using equipment.
    The cons are numerous though:
    No way to measure intensity besides 100% ( you can tell if you are exerting 50% or 80% only if you are tensing 100% or not).
    No way to measure progression.
    No "unbias" way to measure intensity.
    Isometric tension mainly develops strength on a static pathway.
    etc.

    While some can state that the "bulking" up of muscles is also a "con", they tend to not realize that the EXCESSIVE bulking is based on diet and not so much the Strength building protocol one is following.
    They also tend to not realize that there are strength building protocols that focus on "pure strength" only and that do not "induce" muscle growth.

    The "too bulky" argument is a false one because it is based solely on the "bodybuilder" view of STrength building.
    People that comment that weight training makes on "bulky and slow" seem to ignore the muscular builds of sprinters, track athletes, american football players and the vast majority of pro athletes.

    In short, to build strength for ANY physical activity ( athletic or otherwise) we must do it via progressive resistence training and that training can be done wither with "weights" ( barbells, dumbells, keetlebells, stones, own bodyweight, etc) or with "muscular tension" that is done either with no movement ( isometric) or through a given range of movement ( iso-kinetic).
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  2. #2
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    So how do TCMA do it?

    You will find that BOTH methods are used in TCMA.
    Modern equipment is not used where in the past, stone or wooden versions of "barbells, dumbells, keetlebells", were used.
    Older TCMA training manuals show pictures of weight lifting as a crucial part of strength building in TCMA of all kinds.

    Then we have static stance training, progressing from BW only to weight being added on, for the development of strong legs and balance.
    The lifting of sand bags, stones, wooden logs, to build all around strength.

    And we also have isometic exercises being done and within forms such as the "iron wire", the various "sanjian/sam chien, sarm bo gin" forms we find iso-kinetic exercises being performed.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Building strength is CRUCIAL in MA.

    The "too bulky" argument is a false one because it is based solely on the "bodybuilder" view of STrength building.
    People that comment that weight training makes on "bulky and slow" seem to ignore the muscular builds of sprinters, track athletes, american football players and the vast majority of pro athletes.
    I agree 100%. However, my experience with peeps who lift is 75%-80% lift improperly for MA. Many lift and get bulky, especially in their arms and shoulders. In my personal experiences, bulky arms and shoulders reduce free swinging arm rotation from the shoulder joint. The CMA I learned requires arm swing techniques such cup choy or dai fan che to swivel from the shoulder and not be "muscled thru". This "muscling thru" is the wrong type of energy for this particular technique.

    Strength is very important and increasing strength thru various resistance programs is great. I can't emphasize enough on proper strength training and stretching to reduce this type of attitude of I can just lift more and get stronger so I don't have to worry about technique or style.

    ginosifu

  4. #4
    There is another Skywalker (*cough, *sputter, *gasp)

    http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/content.php

  5. #5
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    If anything using modern methods of external strength training alongside traditional methods is even more important in this day and age, most old time TCMA guys came from a rural background, lifting heavy things and building strength was all part of their day to day work it is not these days, thus they had a good base of strength and endurance to work from

    But as with most things its about perspective, if you have never lifted weights for strength or power you might indeed think your TCMA method is superior and better and unique, but since such people have no frame of reference to judge it other than their own bias opinion no one will take your view seriously

  6. #6
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    I have once been of the view that any form of resistance training is not necessary when you have chi...luckily I had a friend to show me not so pleasantly that that was not true.

    I have since become involved with the nerdy side of strength and conditioning alongside going to school to become a chiropractic doctor. I should be getting my CSCS next month.

    Anyways, I truly think that S&C while practicing martial arts are truly necessary for proper physical and mental development. If you push yourself beyond measure in training, then if the time comes for actual combat, the martial artists response will be not as stressed.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    There is another Skywalker (*cough, *sputter, *gasp)

    http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/content.php
    Using your BW is one of the progressive resistence methods with weights, the weight happens to be your body (and anything you can add to it when applicable)
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post
    I agree 100%. However, my experience with peeps who lift is 75%-80% lift improperly for MA. Many lift and get bulky, especially in their arms and shoulders. In my personal experiences, bulky arms and shoulders reduce free swinging arm rotation from the shoulder joint. The CMA I learned requires arm swing techniques such cup choy or dai fan che to swivel from the shoulder and not be "muscled thru". This "muscling thru" is the wrong type of energy for this particular technique.

    Strength is very important and increasing strength thru various resistance programs is great. I can't emphasize enough on proper strength training and stretching to reduce this type of attitude of I can just lift more and get stronger so I don't have to worry about technique or style.

    ginosifu
    A very good point Gino, many people only do the "bodybuilding" type of ST because that is the only one they know.
    Many people are also unaware of the crucial element of stretching the muscles AFTER ST.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    No way to measure intensity besides 100% ( you can tell if you are exerting 50% or 80% only if you are tensing 100% or not).
    No way to measure progression.
    No "unbias" way to measure intensity.
    Isometric tension mainly develops strength on a static pathway.
    etc.
    I have to disagree with your list of cons of bodyweight conditioning. Progression is easily measured by several methods; max time for statics, # of reps for dynamic, moving the fulcrum (decreasing the leverage available to move the body through space). Same with intensity (obviously the math is going to be a little more complicated and the results will not be as seemingly precise as a PLer who warms up with 50% of his max etc but it is possible with consistent observation and logging.)

    An important distinction that should be pointed out between weights vs. body weight conditioning is the activation of different kinetic chains.

    Con: weight lifting is hard on the joints.

    Pro: Body weight conditioning, especially some of the static holds (levers, planche, l-sit, ring elements) and dynamic elements that incorporate them (lever pull ups, planche push ups, l-sit lifts, muscle ups etc) assuming the proper progressions, condition the tendons a great deal.

  10. #10
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    Addendum;

    Pro for weights: fast initial progression.

    Con for body weight: because of the stress on the tendons for even relatively basic elements progression is laboriously, frustratingly slow.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Using your BW is one of the progressive resistence methods with weights, the weight happens to be your body (and anything you can add to it when applicable)
    I see, you weren't distinguishing between body weight vs weight training.
    My fault.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Con: weight lifting is hard on the joints.
    It's only hard on your joints when your body is not moving properly (ie lack of proper technique, too much isolation work, improper muscle activation, previous unknown or subacute injury).

  13. #13
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    Lifting weights is less hard on the joints compared to other activities that are higher impact because, obviously, weight lifting is no-impact.
    Typical MA training is harder on he joints than weight lifting and most modes of ST, the obvious exception being plyometrics.

    Wenshu, the cons I listed were for ST without any weights, ie: isometric and isokinetic.
    BUT you make a valid point in regards to the timing on static holds.
    Not so much in regards to rep qty's in regards to Dynamic because of the very crucila issue of not being able to measure % of intensity.

    Which brings me to the issue of NOT going 100% on isometrics or isokinetics.
    There is no way to measure going 50 or 70 or 80% on isometrics of isokinetics, either one is tensing to the max or one isn't and in terms of strength building, not doing 100% tension in an isometric or isokintic exercises is NOT doing it to its fullest potential.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #14
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    I got thrown off in part by your use of isometric in reference to voluntary muscular contraction without resistance. I was thinking about isometrics against resistance.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    I got thrown off in part by your use of isometric in reference to voluntary muscular contraction without resistance. I was thinking about isometrics against resistance.
    As you know, there are 3 types of strength: Concentric, eccentric and isometric, so yeah I can see where I could have been clearer
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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