How Does the West Train Internal?

[bawang]

people pointed out time and time again internal was a made up term in early 1900s to scam rich people. u guys have memory of a gold fish

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Pilates has so many parallels it is nearly impossible not to speculate that it's founder was directly influenced by yoga or daoyin/qigong.


In order to keep the lower abdominals close to the spine; the breathing needs to be directed laterally, into the lower ribcage. Pilates breathing is described as a posterior lateral breathing, meaning that the practitioner is instructed to breathe deep into the back and sides of his or her rib cage.

This does not sound like internal power. It sounds like breathing so you feel your back inflate. Internal lets the entire dantien expand in all directions. The abdominals expand AWAY from the spine. If you try to force the abs to stay as close to the spine as possible, you restrict the expansion of the dantien and choke off internal power.

It's very similar to the way you choke off internal power by arching the back, only it's the front of the body doing it.

So no, Pilates is not internal at all.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

people pointed out time and time again internal was a made up term in early 1900s to scam rich people. u guys have memory of a gold fish

Not true. Internal/external was used as far back as the Sung dynasty. It's very much descriptive of the dantien powered body method VS non dantien powered body methods.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

The hick maneuver used by fighter pilots to withstand high G's uses a lot of muscular contractions and muscle tensing. Isn't that external by TCMA definitions?

Yes.



..................

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Everything I have seen my entire life and MA career shows me that Chinese Internal movement is something unique to the Chinese martial, arts. It's not found in any other discipline.

[wenshu]

Not true. Internal/external was used as far back as the Sung dynasty. It's very much descriptive of the dantien powered body method VS non dantien powered body methods.

I am going to venture a guess that you have no actual historically verifiable source for this ridiculous assertion. Making assumptions based on subjective observations gleaned from youtube videos of form performances is not a valid method of historical research.

There is no such thing as your inelegantly named "non dantien powered body method" in Chinese martial arts. The very concept is integral to the entire culture. Shuai Jiao teaches that shit to wet behind the ears neophytes on their first day, is Shuai Jiao considered internal?

This does not sound like internal power. It sounds like breathing so you feel your back inflate. Internal lets the entire dantien expand in all directions. The abdominals expand AWAY from the spine. If you try to force the abs to stay as close to the spine as possible, you restrict the expansion of the dantien and choke off internal power.

It's very similar to the way you choke off internal power by arching the back, only it's the front of the body doing it.

So no, Pilates is not internal at all.

I would think someone who claims to have such a depth of knowledge of "internal practices" would be familiar with reverse abdominal (fetal) breathing. I guess that is what happens when you learn the bulk of your martial arts practice from internet message boards and youtube videos.

Rounding your back and inhaling during exertion does not make something a "dantien powered body method". The fuck out of here.

[wenshu]

The hick maneuver used by fighter pilots to withstand high G's uses a lot of muscular contractions and muscle tensing. Isn't that external by TCMA definitions?

Yes.

No it is not. There is an entire class of qi gong exercises that revolve around skeletal muscular contraction and tension. Wait, didn't we discuss this recently?

[bawang]

I would think someone who claims to have such a depth of knowledge of "internal practices" would be familiar with reverse abdominal (fetal) breathing.

he claims during reverse breathing when you pop out your stomach, you are actually breathing IN. anyone who trains remotely anything legitimate can see this guy is a fraud. i dont know whethe to laugh or cry.

[Darthlawyer]

Not true. Internal/external was used as far back as the Sung dynasty. It's very much descriptive of the dantien powered body method VS non dantien powered body methods.

Actually, there's a strong argument that internal/external distinguishes arts that did not start inside China, i.e. the Buddhist Shaolin arts vs. the Wudang Taoist arts.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

he claims during reverse breathing when you pop out your stomach, you are actually breathing IN. anyone who trains remotely anything legitimate can see this guy is a fraud. i dont know whethe to laugh or cry.

You need to fly your Helicopter over here and meet me in the park like you said you were going to do last time...and never showed.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

he claims during reverse breathing when you pop out your stomach, you are actually breathing IN. anyone who trains remotely anything legitimate can see this guy is a fraud. i dont know whethe to laugh or cry.

I have not spoken about reverse breathing here. Only expanding the dantien through inflating, which drives power outward in all directions.

Stop making lies about me.

[Ray Pina]

This entire thread has been very amusing and revealing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This entire thread has been very amusing and revealing.

Indeed.


When I was over in Beijing for the olympics I has a chance to speak with some of the chinese trainers ( friends of friends) and I asked them if they ever decided to add TCMA methodoligies and they pint out said that, decades ago when CHina decided to became a powerhouse and even more so when they get the Olympics, they want to bring home the medals ( just like Australia before them).
The government sports and research departments researched EVEYTHING, inculdung the TCMA training and in particular the IMA because they were already using TCM like accupuncture and herbs ( like the cordyceps that became a banned substance).
The found that NONE of the IMA methodolgies were AS effctive as modern scientfic ones simply becaus ethey were BASICALLY the SAME THING but with a slower progress and archaic terms for things that they now have modern terminology for.

In short: The pro atheltes and amateure athletes were already doing the "internals" that would be be helpful for their chosen sports and they were doing them WITHOUT the "BS" that surronds IMA.

[Indrafist]

Indeed.


When I was over in Beijing for the olympics I has a chance to speak with some of the chinese trainers ( friends of friends) and I asked them if they ever decided to add TCMA methodoligies and they pint out said that, decades ago when CHina decided to became a powerhouse and even more so when they get the Olympics, they want to bring home the medals ( just like Australia before them).
The government sports and research departments researched EVEYTHING, inculdung the TCMA training and in particular the IMA because they were already using TCM like accupuncture and herbs ( like the cordyceps that became a banned substance).
The found that NONE of the IMA methodolgies were AS effctive as modern scientfic ones simply becaus ethey were BASICALLY the SAME THING but with a slower progress and archaic terms for things that they now have modern terminology for.

In short: The pro atheltes and amateure athletes were already doing the "internals" that would be be helpful for their chosen sports and they were doing them WITHOUT the "BS" that surronds IMA.

There you have it....

[Lucas]

Indeed.


When I was over in Beijing for the olympics I has a chance to speak with some of the chinese trainers ( friends of friends) and I asked them if they ever decided to add TCMA methodoligies and they pint out said that, decades ago when CHina decided to became a powerhouse and even more so when they get the Olympics, they want to bring home the medals ( just like Australia before them).
The government sports and research departments researched EVEYTHING, inculdung the TCMA training and in particular the IMA because they were already using TCM like accupuncture and herbs ( like the cordyceps that became a banned substance).
The found that NONE of the IMA methodolgies were AS effctive as modern scientfic ones simply becaus ethey were BASICALLY the SAME THING but with a slower progress and archaic terms for things that they now have modern terminology for.

In short: The pro atheltes and amateure athletes were already doing the "internals" that would be be helpful for their chosen sports and they were doing them WITHOUT the "BS" that surronds IMA.