Dude, that's what treadmills and versa climbers are for.Originally Posted by Paul T England
Mook yan jongs are to lean against when teaching class, and lecturing to students.
Glorified TCMAist
Dude, that's what treadmills and versa climbers are for.
Mook yan jongs are to lean against when teaching class, and lecturing to students.
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
Registered User
The jong is a simple training tool, doesn't actually teach you anything really. It just allows you to exercise what you have been trying to learn. Nothing mysterious about it, nothing specific and pointed about it. Everyone wants to put the cart before the horse.
The jong is built to represent a person. It as the 2 arms to represent a 2 hand stance position, the middle arm represents an uppercut position or low punch, and the leg of course is the one foot forward stance. I find that most white men stand several inches taller than I, and the jong seems to be a man shorter than myself. I suspend my jong to represent a 6 foot man.
When we see WC represented in a movie or something, we see them punching chests and midsections, and this short jong and training the other forms at an unrealistic level is the reason.
Jackie Lee
Registered User
Which means you obviously don't understand it.The jong is a simple training tool, doesn't actually teach you anything really.
No it's not......sorry I should say it doesn't in my lineage. If you want to work out on a stubby limbed man with one arm sticking out his belly and one leg who can't move then who am I to argue?The jong is built to represent a person.
It does not! That is the general opinion in WC but we all know by now the reasons for that.It as the 2 arms to represent a 2 hand stance position, the middle arm represents an uppercut position or low punch, and the leg of course is the one foot forward stance.
That is just completely wrong.............................IMOI find that most white men stand several inches taller than I, and the jong seems to be a man shorter than myself. I suspend my jong to represent a 6 foot man.
When we see WC represented in a movie or something, we see them punching chests and midsections, and this short jong and training the other forms at an unrealistic level is the reason.
Before we get embroiled in another flame war lets just say that we have two completely different ideas on Ving Tsun. The only problem is that I "used" to have the same ideas as you until I found a better path.
GH
Registered User
Well I'm a white man and I'm 165cm so that's got to be the dumbest racist statement ever. So what do you do against a black hit as they are all bigger and quicker.
Registered User
I think if Wooden Dummy would be useless not so many styles would have adopted it. You can find it in Hung Gar, different Mantis styles, or even Julian Dale seems to use one for its eagle claw. The lesser known "Everlasting Spring"Weng Chun uses also Wooden Dummy.
Kind regards,
Xian
Registered User
That's a bizarre question coming from you Spencer! I would have thought that with your very close family relationships to Ip Man you would know secret things that the rest of us don't!
I can tell from how your dummy is set up that we will have totally conflicting ideas on these "specific purposes" so as I said to that other guy there is no point in more warring! We practice different WC's.
GH
Moderator
Morning,
Thought I would post a few things conisdering some of the things already having been posted.
1. Does the Jong represent a human body? Not really, at least not in any sense of a sparring dummy with the body and arms representing how an opponent stands or how the body will be in position. However, the jong does represent, or perhaps I should say can represent, various parts of the body segments in specific applications. For example, the upper dummy arms can be thought of as the portion of the upper human arm from the elbow back to or even forward to the wrist, depending on technique applied (Taun or Bong and Pak Sau. These do not really represent a punch per se but are more for refining the position of your technique and help show where contact should be as well as refine the angle. Another reason that the arms really can't be said to represent an opponent is that the arms which are not in contact at the time at times "no longer matter as though they do not exist". For example lets say you use your right arm to Pak to the inside of the right (as facing you) you dummy arm. In this instance you would not be concerned with the left dummy arm and it would not in essence exist at that time. However, having said that, there are times when both arms would be in play and in such a case your body position and angle should insure you are out of the line of both. There is a lot more to this than this simple explanation but perhaps this can provide a start.
2. The height of the dummy is an important conisderation but I do not believe it is a racist thing. Different people are different heights, even if of the same race. The dummy was originally made for Yip Man and his body structure, this is one reason why, if one has the money etc. it is a good idea to provide your measurements and have a dummy custom made for you. When playing the dummy your stance should put your upper chest in line with the two upper arms, or at least that is how I was taught. With this in mind, setting the height of your dummy at a lower position will help you train a lower stance and placing it higher will help to train to apply against taller opponents. Also, having a dummy with adjustable height can allow more than one person to use the same dummy and adjust it to fit thier body.
3. The dummy may not "teach" us anything. However I do believe that proper training on the dummy will go a long way to refining our skills. I also believe that working the dummy may result in an AH HA moment where something is made clearer.
4. I think that in real fights attacks to the body do more damage and have caused more knockouts than headshots. Look at Boxing and you can find some real nice bodyshot knockouts, of course there are headshots as well.
A funny thing to me is that many are headhunters when doing Chi Sau
Anyhow, those are some thoughts early in the morning as I prepare to make my kids breakfast and run them to school. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Registered User
Thankfully we have different ideas, yours caused by WSL and PB having their own ideas and mine caused by simply being taught Wing Chun without the ego. Funny that
Of course, just from the set-up of my wooden man we must have a different purpose, so what's yours? Why are you so different than everyone else??
Last edited by Sihing73; 09-28-2011 at 11:48 AM.
Ti Fei
詠春國術
Glorified TCMAist
great post. You're putting out some great information, which is really why we have a forum.Morning,
Thought I would post a few things conisdering some of the things already having been posted.
1. Does the Jong represent a human body? Not really, at least not in any sense of a sparring dummy with the body and arms representing how an opponent stands or how the body will be in position. However, the jong does represent, or perhaps I should say can represent, various parts of the body segments in specific applications. For example, the upper dummy arms can be thought of as the portion of the upper human arm from the elbow back to or even forward to the wrist, depending on technique applied (Taun or Bong and Pak Sau. These do not really represent a punch per se but are more for refining the position of your technique and help show where contact should be as well as refine the angle. Another reason that the arms really can't be said to represent an opponent is that the arms which are not in contact at the time at times "no longer matter as though they do not exist". For example lets say you use your right arm to Pak to the inside of the right (as facing you) you dummy arm. In this instance you would not be concerned with the left dummy arm and it would not in essence exist at that time. However, having said that, there are times when both arms would be in play and in such a case your body position and angle should insure you are out of the line of both. There is a lot more to this than this simple explanation but perhaps this can provide a start.
2. The height of the dummy is an important conisderation but I do not believe it is a racist thing
3. The dummy may not "teach" us anything. However I do believe that proper training on the dummy will go a long way to refining our skills. I also believe that working the dummy may result in an AH HA moment where something is made clearer.
4. I think that in real fights attacks to the body do more damage and have caused more knockouts than headshots. Look at Boxing and you can find some real nice bodyshot knockouts, of course there are headshots as well.
A funny thing to me is that many are headhunters when doing Chi Sau
Anyhow, those are some thoughts early in the morning as I prepare to make my kids breakfast and run them to school. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Graham, why don't you share your thoughts on the MYJ, rather than simply stating that you know and everybody else does not, which in my opinion, is not contributing.
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
Registered User
You may be wasting your breath.
And I agree. Daves post was good. But great? That's all I will say
Ti Fei
詠春國術
Glorified TCMAist
And in saying that.....You may be wasting your breath.
And I agree. Daves post was good. But great? That's all I will say
when all you see is back and forth t1t for tat, it is a breath of fresh air.
Although not a WC practitioner (used to study it years ago) I still use my jong.
I use it for power generation, rooting, positioning, conditioning.
Whenever I get an idea, I like to work it out on the jong, work my placement, distance, angles, footwork.
Then..I grab my Si-Dai and play with it.
THEN..I grab my Si-Hing and play with it.
Lastly, I play with my Sifu..
get trashed....
and go back to the jong...
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
I kind of do what Rik does, I use it to "bounce off ideas".
I also do use it as a conditioning device because, well, it works real well in that regard.
You can't really develop any direct fighting attributes with it per say, since you are NOT fighting it and it is NOT fighting you back.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
I see what you're saying here man...
I personally will try to be less t1t-for-tat
Ti Fei
詠春國術
Registered (L)user
No, it represents the body of the aliens who will overrun what remains of the planet after the 2012 apocalypse.Does the Jong represent a human body?
Prepare yourself now! Get a mook jong and practice your a$$ off!
"Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
"We are all one" - Genki Sudo
"We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
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Phoenix eye hammer
You haven't recently gone into the business of making and selling mook jong's have you? That sounds like a marketing ploy.
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