Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 60

Thread: Wing Chun Fighting - No Bridge No sensitivity!

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    943
    I don't focus on trading punches with an opponent (not saying that I don't hit him though!).

    Mentally, I treat my opponent as cattle with sharp horns. I aim at staying away from his horns, capturing/controlling him then butchering the beast as quickly as possible.
    Dr. J Fung
    www.kulowingchun.com

    "打得好就詠春,打得唔好就dum春"

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The state that resembles a middle finger.
    Posts
    3,274
    I have actually walked up to people with no warning and put them down and out. It works better then announcing your intentions.
    in the justice system this is called assualt. But I get what you are saying, the person whom strikes first usually is the victor.

    I don't recommend just going up to someone and clocking them, legal implications and all. But again situations dictate many things.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po View Post
    I have actually walked up to people with no warning and put them down and out. It works better then announcing your intentions. The guy might just make it a little more difficult if you do that. But if a person squares off he is aware of your intentions most likely, and getting in past his defense might be a bit dangerous. A lucky punch can put you flat of your back. I prefer to let him try to breach my defense instead. I might not be able to take control of him, but I will keep working until I do. If I initiate the first blow it is usually with his full expectance, and he will usually do something very predictable by trying to block it, giving you his arm so that you can then start jerking him around by it. The only way I know of controling a mans striking ability is to control his arms. If he is doing chi sao stuff it would be simple, but he will likely just jump back and start dancing and come in windmilling, or even trying to do his best Mike Tyson immitation.
    You seem to know a lot about scrapping to an extent where you know what they are going to do or might do. Impressive.

    People that try to analyse street fights probably haven't had any. The whole "he might do this so I will do that" is BS......IMO

    G

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    It depends on the level of user, most wing chin and most arts are only low level students and have to rely on speed and power to deal with there opponent and do not have the skill level to use the bridge to their advantage.

    Learning defense skill takes 5 to 10 times longer to develop than a offense skill, most sparring is just 2 offense guys trying to get there first.

    Plus most styles have lost the defensive skills by dilution over the years and only have the offense left to teach, its sad but that what happens to most things that expand to quickly for different reasons, mostly greed of financial gains.

    Most school are set up for financial gains and ego boosting reasons and are usually low level schools teaching only physical skills.
    If you think you do not need speed or power you are in trouble. That is why a child cannot win a full contact kickboxing match with an adult... because he is too weak.
    Last edited by Sihing73; 10-10-2011 at 11:35 AM.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    284
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu View Post
    Wing Chun is About Controlling the Bridge why when i see people spar with wing chun they look just like kick boxers. With no Bridge, No bong sau, No Tan Sau, No Pak Sau. Not even one technique from chi sau or mook yan jong is used!
    I have noticed VT fighters look like kickboxers too. They use hit and run tactics: dashing in, throwing chain punches maybe in combination with a kick or two then rush out- in my opinion this is not VT. This is more akin to boxing or kickboxing.

    Since Wing Chun is about controlling the bridge.
    Why do people who spar with wing chun don't use the bridge nor do they follow the concepts of wing chun by intercepting attacks and redirecting them.
    VT is about controlling the bridge. Personally I thought VT was about winning the fight. Controlling the bridge is a concept that VT and some other Chinese martial arts use. Long before VT there was fighting. Fighting is about defeating the opponent. VT is one way but despite what many VT practitioners say is not the most efficient. No single style is more efficient than another, it is how the fighter uses it.

    Why don't WC schools have sparring which forces the student to utilize Wing Chun techniques?
    Why dont you and your fellow students engage in friendly sparring matches out of school? Or spar with practitioners of other arts and see what works?
    Last edited by trubblman; 10-10-2011 at 08:19 AM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    You seem to know a lot about scrapping to an extent where you know what they are going to do or might do. Impressive.

    People that try to analyse street fights probably haven't had any. The whole "he might do this so I will do that" is BS......IMO

    G
    Actually, this has been strictly from experience. I have never come up on anyone that has had any formal training so to speak. Maybe some karate, maybe some judo, mostly people have tried to box me. I did fight a mantis dude back a long time ago and beat the snot out of him. No one can know what the other fellow is going to do, but you can pretty much learn what to expect after a while. I have been surprised a few times, but not to any great extent. By far the majority have just started dancing about and jabbing like a boxer.
    That is the reason I find chi sao to be a hinderance to actual fighting. It is a 2 man drill, and not really that. The day someone started trying to out chi sao his training partner it because a silly game.
    Jackie Lee

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po View Post
    Actually, this has been strictly from experience. I have never come up on anyone that has had any formal training so to speak. Maybe some karate, maybe some judo, mostly people have tried to box me. I did fight a mantis dude back a long time ago and beat the snot out of him. No one can know what the other fellow is going to do, but you can pretty much learn what to expect after a while. I have been surprised a few times, but not to any great extent. By far the majority have just started dancing about and jabbing like a boxer.
    That is the reason I find chi sao to be a hinderance to actual fighting. It is a 2 man drill, and not really that. The day someone started trying to out chi sao his training partner it because a silly game.
    Ok, its good that you have that kind of experience. In my experience the biggest hurdle is not the exchange of blows but the fear and adrenaline rush that can sometimes make you feel very weak and not want to continue. Most street fights occur due the presence of drugs, in particualrly alchohol. Unless you are a little crazy in the head most people don't fight outside of competition just for the fun of it.

    If Chi Sau is trained and understood correctly it shouldn't be a hinderance. It is a learning tool not a fighting tool although the skills that are improved in chi sau must cross over into sparring/fighting. The idea of chi sau is to remain free form contact and use the most simple punching route. It also teaches us that if our punch is blocked or deflected then we can find a new punching route in an instant. This allows one to mainting a constant attack (not chain punching) in which case your oppoents abilty to attack you back is restricted. My opinion is that chi sau can be an over indulgence and can actually detract from gaining any real fighting skills. Just look at that clip of the man and woman posted on another thread. They are sexy dancing with each other not fighting! The problem is that I bet that to them and their training partners/peers they think they are actually learning to fight.



    GH
    Last edited by Graham H; 10-10-2011 at 02:11 PM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,699
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    The M.Y. student used a bong to deflect the first lop n punch but his stance fell apart and the rest we see...

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    284
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    From what I can see the lop sao was held too long. A more experienced opponent would have easily countered it with a huen sao or tan sao. The guy who was seized made the mistake of trying to struggle out by pulling away. The guy who was grabbed even though he managed to pull off the trap took too much time and appeared to use too much muscle.
    Last edited by trubblman; 10-10-2011 at 05:10 PM.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by trubblman View Post
    From what I can see the lop sao was held too long. A more experienced opponent would have easily countered it with a huen sao or tan sao. The guy who was seized made the mistake of trying to struggle out by pulling away. The guy who was grabbed even though he managed to pull off the trap took too much time and appeared to use too much muscle.
    As much as I don't like that clip you think you can say what you or "a more experinced guy" would do in that situation from viewing it? I don't think so! Until you are stood in front of somebody nobody can say what they can or can't do!

    G

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    284
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    As much as I don't like that clip you think you can say what you or "a more experinced guy" would do in that situation from viewing it? I don't think so! Until you are stood in front of somebody nobody can say what they can or can't do!

    G
    I do it all the time. I just finished sparring yesterday where I did it ( using tan sau or huen sao to release a lop sao) at least 5 times in 1 hour. It was I and one of my friends I used to train with. He does TWC. So I know what I am talking about. To me breaking grabs is a fundamental VT skill. That's why there are huen sao's all over VT forms and VT emphasis on sensitivity, so as to escape from chin na, lop sau and other grappling type moves.
    Last edited by trubblman; 10-11-2011 at 06:14 AM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    North London, England
    Posts
    3,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po View Post
    The day someone started trying to out chi sao his training partner it became a silly game.
    Very very true And on this forum that is quite rare!

    This is one of the reasons I refer to Chisau as an interactive exercise, or Doi Lien in Cantonese.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by trubblman View Post
    I do it all the time. I just finished sparring yesterday where I did it ( using tan sau or huen sao to release a lop sao) at least 5 times in 1 hour. It was I and one of my friends I used to train with. He does TWC. So I know what I am talking about. To me breaking grabs is a fundamental VT skill. That's why there are huen sao's all over VT forms and VT emphasis on sensitivity, so as to escape from chin na, lop sau and other grappling type moves.
    If you think the reason for there being so many huen sau's in the forms is for breaking wrist grabs then we practice two very different systems of Wing Chun so each to their own I guess.

    G
    Last edited by Sihing73; 10-13-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    284
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    If you think the reason for there being so many huen sau's in the forms is for breaking wrist grabs then we practice two very different systems of Wing Chun so each to their own I guess.

    G
    You misunderstand. I didnt say that the only reason the huen saus are there is for wrist breaks. There is no one single application for a movement. There are many applications for a lot of movements IMO. The huen sau is very effective for breaking grabs, just as a tan sau is. And just because a tan sau is good for a wrist break does not mean that is the only thing the tan sau is good for.

    Yes my friend does TWC and I may have some criticisms of TWC in general but I know this guy and some of the other TWC practitioners where I live are very good.
    Last edited by Sihing73; 10-13-2011 at 05:18 PM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •