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Thread: Meihua Lu

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  1. #1
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    Meihua Lu

    I was looking back through the old threads here and discovered that there has been no discussion of the Meihua Lu form since 1/8/2008.

    I thought it might be interesting to start a discussion since the form is found in both the Qixing and Greater Meihua lines of mantis.

    Wong Hon Fan refers to the form as 梅 花 落 (mi huā lu - Plum Flower Falling) in his book series. Most other families refer to the same form as 梅 花 路 (mi huā l - Plum Flower Road).

    Here are some videos of the form:

    Taiji Meihua Tanglangquan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7l3f...h_response_rev
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwc3T0Y8A-g

    Taiji Tanglangquan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY6VW...el_video_title

    Qixing Tanglangquan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZDYWPAYACI&NR=1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Dgd...eature=related
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 10-09-2011 at 06:54 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357219314344817/

    45 years of training and still not there. But every once in a while I get it right!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

    Yes, I fight in silk pajamas. And I have probably broken more opponent's ribs in my silk pajamas than many others rolling around in their knickers and mittens!

  2. #2
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    Interesting clips,

    taijitanglangquan is interesting, even looked like a bagua style dragon serving teacup move in there...how mixed are the mainland styles?

    WHF version is close to CCM version but has an extra run at end.

    How come we have so many differences between WHF and CCM versions?

    Paul
    www.moifa.co.uk

  3. #3
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    Last edited by TaichiMantis; 10-10-2011 at 05:52 AM.
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

  4. #4
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    Dan Zhai Mei Hua is a different form unrelated to Mei Hua Lu. But a nice form.

  5. #5
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    I have suspected for some time that Mei Hua Lu-Plum Flower Road, is another version of Luanjie.
    I don't have any solid proof, to go on, just something I try to keep my eyes open for when looking at the different families and varieties of these two forms.
    As of yet, I have not found any links in performance that would indicate that they are related.

    As far as performance;
    A move near the beginning of both forms called Tyrant takes the helmet in mei hua lu is similar in application to Maiden Threads the Needle of Luanjie.

    The name Luanjie has also been called MeiHua Lu at least in the QIng Dynasty.

    Tyrant Takes the Helmet and Mei Hua Lu

  6. #6
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    Smile

    Hi TaiChiMantis,

    Kevin is correct that DanZhai MeiHua has nothing to do with Mei Hua Lu, which is created by Jiang Hua Long.

    Our DZMH has many classic combinations from other forms found in our line such as 12 old hands (I recently learned this form), Bengbu, Lanjie, Jiegun, Bazhou, Zhai Yao. This is interesting in that it shows consistency within the style. There is clearly a thread through the style.

    DZMH has elements of Zhai Yao in it plus a few more kicks than our other forms. In a sense, this is more of a representation of Sun Yuan Chang's "personal" style to me.

    Lanjie, Jiegun, DanZhai MeiHua, Bazhou, Zhai Yao is, in my mind, the five petals of the plum blossoms of CCK TCPM. DZMH is the hub or highlight of Sun Yuan Chang's personal style.

    Warm regard

    Robert
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

    凡立勢不可站定。凡交手須是要走。千着萬着﹐走為上着﹐進為高着﹐閃賺騰挪為
    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

    TJPM Forum

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T England View Post
    WHF version is close to CCM version but has an extra run at end.

    How come we have so many differences between WHF and CCM versions?

    Paul
    www.moifa.co.uk
    LOL! Not brave enough to touch that political hot potato!!!

    Kevin,
    Excellent articles on four moves of Meihua Lu at your site!
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357219314344817/

    45 years of training and still not there. But every once in a while I get it right!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

    Yes, I fight in silk pajamas. And I have probably broken more opponent's ribs in my silk pajamas than many others rolling around in their knickers and mittens!

  8. #8
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    WHF Quan Pu of Meihua Luo

    Here is my English translation, along with the pinyin for the Chinese characters, of the Wong Hon Fan version of the quanpu for the form:

    WHF Mei Hua Luo Translation
    Plum Flower Falling

    01. Rear Pattern, Double Overturn Palms
    bei shi shuang fu zhang
    02. Topple Power, Catch Cicada Pattern
    dao shi bu chan shi
    03. Enter Ring, Single Arm Claw
    ru huan dan bi zhao
    04. Raise Leg, Thrust at Face Palm
    ti tui ying mian zhang
    05. Penetrating Palm, Seal, Stride Step
    chuan zhang feng deng yong
    06. Rising Pattern, Overturn Bottom, Catch Hold
    qi shi fan di jie
    07. Enter Ring, Right File Palm
    ru huan you cuo zhang
    08. Raise Leg, Right Offer the Peach
    ti tui you xian tao
    09. Enter Ring, Right Rolling Arm
    ru huan you gun bang
    10. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
    deng shan you cuo chui
    11. Enter Circle, Right Waist Cut
    ru huan you yao zhan
    12. Seal Hand, Left Gathering Strike
    feng shou zuo tong chui
    13. Collapse Stance, Left Fill In Strike
    tun chang zuo bu chui
    14. Ascend Mountain, Right Crushing Strike
    deng shan you beng chui
    15. Right Close Door Leg Method
    you bi men tui fa
    16. Ascend Mountain, Ten Character Strike
    deng shan shi zi chui
    17. Pouncing Leg, Left Circle Strike
    pu tui zuo quan chui
    18. Ascend Mountain, Left Crushing Strike
    deng shan zuo beng chui
    19. Seven Star, Left Hook Hand
    qi xing zuo diao shou
    20. Seven Star, Right Fill In Strike
    qi xing you bu chui
    21. Ascend Mountain, Right Returning Palm
    deng shan you fan zhang
    22. Advancing Pattern, Leaking Chop Palm
    jin shi lou qie zhang
    23. Withdraw Step, Left Gathering Strike
    che bu zuo tong chui
    24. Ascend Mountain, Right Circle Strike
    deng shan you quan chui
    25. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
    deng shan you cuo chui
    26. Enter Ring, Right Waist Cut
    ru huan you yao zhan
    27. Gathering Punch, Ten Character Leg
    tong chui shi zi tui
    28. Horse Pattern, Right Split Stop
    mah shi you pi ga
    29. Right Sweeping Wing Kicking Leg
    you lue chi ti tui
    30. Ascend Mountain, Left Straight Gathering
    deng shan zuo zhi tong
    31. Straddle Tiger, Left Single Whip
    kua hu zuo dan bian
    32. Straddle Tiger, Left Hook Hand
    kua hu zuo diao shou
    33. Ascend Mountain, Right Circle Strike
    deng shan you quan chui
    34. Horse Pattern, Leaking, Stop Knee
    mah shi lou ga xi
    35. Right Circle, Single Whip Pattern
    you quan dan bian shi
    36. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
    deng shan you cuo chui
    37. Enter Ring, Right Waist Cut
    ru huan you yao zhan
    38. Ascend Mountain, Right Returning Palm
    deng shan you fan zhang
    39. Middle Pattern, Right Greeting Circle
    zhong shi you jiao quan
    40. Ascend Mountain, Right Circle Strike
    deng shan you quan chui
    41. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
    deng shan you cuo chui
    42. Withdraw Step, Hang, Gathering Strike
    che bu gua tong chui
    43. Ascend Mountain, Right Split Stop
    deng shan you pi ga
    44. Kick Leg, Right Rolling Arm
    ti tui you gun pang
    45. Withdraw Step, Big Wheel
    che bu da fan che
    46. Continue Advancing, Three Pulleys
    lian jin san lu lo
    47. Raise Leg, Left Uppercut Strike
    ti tui zuo cuo chui
    48. Raise Leg, Right Uppercut Strike
    ti tui you cuo chui
    49. Double Seal Hands, Stride Step
    shuang feng shou deng yong
    50. Withdraw Step, Left Carry Palm
    che bu zuo tiao zhang
    51. Withdraw Step, Right Carry Palm
    che bu you tiao zhang
    52. Turn Body, Double Bind Legs
    zhuan shen shuang kun tui
    53. Straddle Tiger, Left Carry Palm
    kua hu zuo tiao zhang

    I would love to see the Meihua Tanglangquan quanpu if anyone has it. HINT! HINT!
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 10-10-2011 at 01:50 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357219314344817/

    45 years of training and still not there. But every once in a while I get it right!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

    Yes, I fight in silk pajamas. And I have probably broken more opponent's ribs in my silk pajamas than many others rolling around in their knickers and mittens!

  9. #9
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    Let me say I hate martial politics and don't want to get into right or wrong.

    There are clear differences in forms done by different families of mantis as with every other martial art.

    It would be nice to have open discussions on the why and how this has happened. Lets be honest its just evolution.

    On another note, my understanding is that at least hong kong schools often have signature starts or ends or even combinations in there forms to identify their school. Wing Chun and CLF at least have this evolution so I would not be supprised if it happened with mantis as well.

    WHF group seem to have had alot of cross over with CCK mantis and its welknown that CCM did eagle claw before mantis so as a good great grandstudents of these great masters it would be good to have a better understanding of from where the water flows.

    Oh before people say ask your sifu, maybe they are too close and traditional to have open disucssions around such topics but surely us western 21st century boys can have mature discussions.

    Paul
    www.moifa.co.uk

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T England View Post
    There are clear differences in forms done by different families of mantis as with every other martial art.

    Paul
    www.moifa.co.uk
    Paul,
    Can you share the differences between the CCM version of Meihua Lu and the WHF version that I posted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tainan Mantis View Post
    It is in zhang bing dou's book
    Do you know where this is available? I checked the internet but couldn't find a reference to it? Is it in English or Chinese?
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357219314344817/

    45 years of training and still not there. But every once in a while I get it right!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

    Yes, I fight in silk pajamas. And I have probably broken more opponent's ribs in my silk pajamas than many others rolling around in their knickers and mittens!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    I would love to see the Meihua Tanglangquan quanpu if anyone has it. HINT! HINT!
    It is in zhang bing dou's book

  12. #12
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    so what is the meaning of "plum flower" in both these forms? they must be related somehow...just curious
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

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