Joe Rogan

[Frost]

umm rogan is a commentator not a fighter, Obasi is a low level fighter who will probably never be on the big stage after what happened last time he tried out for a big organisation

having said that Rogen competed in TKD, and is a black belt in BJJ, so who knows what would happen

[Ben Gash]

a wing chun guy who is winning many fight in mma

Pro record of 0-1 , and didn't start winning amateur fights until he started training at Alliance BJJ. Indeed, if you watch the few vids where he wins, it's superior jitz that does it.

[Lee Chiang Po]

umm rogan is a commentator not a fighter, Obasi is a low level fighter who will probably never be on the big stage after what happened last time he tried out for a big organisation

having said that Rogen competed in TKD, and is a black belt in BJJ, so who knows what would happen

From what I can see Rogan is just bad around the mouth. He don't have the moxy to fight or he would be all up in it. Tatoos and all.

[Frost]

From what I can see Rogan is just bad around the mouth. He don't have the moxy to fight or he would be all up in it. Tatoos and all.

Umm he makes a very good living from what he does why should he fight?

He probable makes more than most the fighters in the UFC doing what he does......
But he did fight back in his TKD days so he does has stand up skills and his grappling is way way better than Obasis ( i know fighters that have been to 10th planet and rolled and sparred with Rogan and they all say very good things about him)

[wiz cool c]

he is a commentator, so what he is a martial artist. and we are in a time of put up or shut up. he is making public comments about a style. he is a bjj guy. what is the problem,why cant he put his money where his month is? and i watched a few fights of shawn amature or pro not sure. he kicked ass and besides some ground and ground defense you can see the clear wing chun in his fights.

[Dragonzbane76]

honestly you guys take to much to heart on Mr. rogan.

he's a douchbag, he gets paid to do what he does. end of story. so what he insulted some WC guys, is he right in what he says? If not stand up prove him wrong.

[Shaolin Wookie]

It is really a shame that Shuai Jiao is not better represented in the west. What is here for the most part is Bao Ding via Taiwan. Nothing against that mind you but the grip fighting and techniques in Beijing/Tianjin style are devastating.

The carryover from taolu oriented gong fu is substantial, the stances, footwork, qin na etc are nearly identical the only difference being that you immediately reconcile them with sparring against a resisting opponent, which as we all know is a practice that is woefully underdeveloped in western gong fu practice.

The inveterate black and white thinkers on both sides always conveniently disregard Shuai Jiao whenever mired in this tired ass argument. Shuai Jiao IS sport gong fu.

What's the diff? Not to pick at you, b/c I fully understand what you're talking about--I sought out SJ guys in my area---but SJ isn't much more than jujitsu, judo, and chin-na mixed together. You can learn SJ without an SJ teacher.

I'd certainly love to learn from true SJ guys, but there's no reason anybody else can't learn SJ without SJ teachers. Once you study standup jujitsu, throws and sweeps will appear in your CMA left-and-right.

[wenshu]

What's the diff? Not to pick at you, b/c I fully understand what you're talking about--I sought out SJ guys in my area---but SJ isn't much more than jujitsu, judo, and chin-na mixed together. You can learn SJ without an SJ teacher.

I'd certainly love to learn from true SJ guys, but there's no reason anybody else can't learn SJ without SJ teachers. Once you study standup jujitsu, throws and sweeps will appear in your CMA left-and-right.

Not to diminish the similarities, it's all related in one way or another, but the differences are substantial. By way of a for instance Judo relies heavily on momentum to execute throws whereas Shuai Jiao is more dependent on explosive strength. By all outward appearances a subtle difference but it changes the fundamental orientation of basic training.

Shuai Jiao is not Judo is not Jiujitsu. Mixing Judo with Indonesian Chinese forms practice doesn't make it Shuai Jiao. This egalitarian, lineage free, one size fits all, style doesn't matter view of the martial arts, commendable idealism though it may be, doesn't reflect reality. Traditional martial arts culture may be full of ass backwards patriarchal nonsense but who learned what from whom kind of matters. Anyone saying it doesn't is selling something.

Go to a Judo coach to learn Judo not Shuai Jiao, or learn Judo then call it Shuai Jiao when you practice forms, that's retarded.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I personally wouldn't know as I have not experienced all of the TCMAs on the planet. I would hazard a guess that if they don't exist in the TCMAs, then that is because by combining different techniques and different ranges, the TCMA-ists of the past came up with potent weapons against ground fighters, however, because of the fact that in the majority of the cases nowadays the TCMAs are taught in an imcomplete manner, then we never see those aspects. I mean for god's sake, most people studying TCMAs nowadays can't even use it for decent stand up fighting...LOL!


The same is true with people in their little MMA worlds who have never truly experienced TCMAs, or TMAs in general.

I guess, blanket statements are wrong, coming from either side of the argument. That is why I take issue with people who say "there is not ground fighting in the TCMAs!". The fact is there are, wether they are as good or not as BJJ is another question for discussion, but not the fact that there are kung fu styles that deal with the ground scenario.

It is a simple fact that NO TCMA has ground grappling on par with BJJ and I say it is a fact because:
Ground grappling is NOT prioritized in ANY TCMA.
I have yet to hear ANY TCMA that has any decent amount of experience in TCMA, including those that are in mainland china, Taiwan and Macao. say that there is ANY TCMA that is on par with BJJ in regards to ground grappling.
It just isn't there because it was NEVER prioritized as it was in BJJ.
It's not a slight on TCMA, it's just a fact.
In terms of ground grappling, BJJ is in a leage all its own.
Even submission grapplers core is BJJ.

[Dragonzbane76]

Like i said ronin, tcma has a very bland overview of grappling, not a focus on it like other styles.

[wenshu]

Like i said ronin, tcma has a very bland overview of grappling, not a focus on it like other styles.

<img> shuai_jiao_face_palm.jpg</img>

[sanjuro_ronin]

<img> shuai_jiao_face_palm.jpg</img>

Ground grappling son.

[wenshu]

Ground grappling son.

Aye.
. . . . . .

[Indrafist]

It is a simple fact that NO TCMA has ground grappling on par with BJJ and I say it is a fact because:
Ground grappling is NOT prioritized in ANY TCMA.
I have yet to hear ANY TCMA that has any decent amount of experience in TCMA, including those that are in mainland china, Taiwan and Macao. say that there is ANY TCMA that is on par with BJJ in regards to ground grappling.
It just isn't there because it was NEVER prioritized as it was in BJJ.
It's not a slight on TCMA, it's just a fact.
In terms of ground grappling, BJJ is in a leage all its own.
Even submission grapplers core is BJJ.

It's an ideal opportunity for TCMA to evolve and develop. Why not? They always have, but the inertia against contemporary development is often huge. One issue is that TCMA serve a bandwidth of purposes, and only one of them is 'fighting'. They're deeply embedded in a traditional culture that often sees MA as vehicles for cultural transmission even more than for combat sport testing, or even self-defence. Comparing TCMA as most usually practiced, with MMA, is not to compare like-with-like. It'll be down to individuals to make changes to what they do. A lot of resistance to change in TCMA has to do with brand ownership (lineage claims and legitimization). But there are people out there making the neccessary changes, which in the longer term can only increase the 'bandwidth' of TCMA practice. I see this as a good thing, but it will mean syncretisms between Chinese and non-Chinese arts - something some would regard as heresy or betrayal. It'll happen anyway, and some people are already leading the way in this.

[Dragonzbane76]

Most SJ does not deal with ground. They are more oriented with throws. There are other SJ that deal with the ground but they are not that in depth.