Joe Rogan

[YouKnowWho]

Many believe they do, they think that by trying it one each other that it is the same thing as doing it against soemone that KNOWS how to do it.

Personally I think the issue is LACK of hard sparring WITH grappling.
If people do that the problems come up and the answers present themselves.

I think the responsibility is on the WC instructors. If the WC instructors brought grappling into their school. Their students won't have to look elsewhere.

[Hardwork108]

First off, Joe's a twat, and he is full of it.

No arguments from me there.

And yes, WC can be an effective system, there is no reason for it NOT to be.

That is exactly my point. So if you and I know that it is effective - or can be effective if trained properly, then why feel the need to prove it to a twat like Joe.

I think you maybe missing my point.
There was a time that there would be a line up to show Joe how wrong he was, what happened to those times?

I think the Mcdojos may have something to do with it, but also, I know kung fu fighters who would not need to prove anything to the likes of Joe, unless he actually went to them and challenged them.

Does WC NOT have even one fighters capable of standing up for it?

Perhaps if Joe had said the same thing on a visit to China, or if he had issued an open challenge there, who knows?

Do you doubt that if Joe had said the same about MT or Kyokushin or Judo or BJJ or Boxing, that there wouldn't be at least quite a few guys willing to open his eyes about it?

I think that even though he did not name these arts, he kind of implied that most of them were balloney also.

My issue is this:
WTF has happened to TCMA that there is no one that is willing to stand up for them?

I understand the issue, but the fact is that he is not too likely to get challenged in his part of the world. Perhaps he should put his money where his mouth is and go and challenged legit sifus, or again, issue an open challenge. Even better if he did it in China? The insentive for him would be that he would make a name (hence presumably money) for himself as a bad@ss.

My guess is that if he keeps on making comments like that, sooner or later someone might just challenge him, but personally speaking, I, and I am honestly speaking for myself, would not bother to challenge him, even if I could beat him with my hands tied behind my back. There is no point. I know that he is talking cr@p about a subject matter he has no knowledge of. So much so that most posters here believe him to be an idiot. Why waste time proving something you know to be right to an idiot?

[Hardwork108]

actually UFC= MMA here in the uk as well , its more stand up based true but that stand up base is 90% kick boxing and Thai boxing NOT TMA or TCMA go to any local regional or national comp and its thai and boxing they use alongside BJJ and wrestling

Wow, are you now saying that there is no stand up fighting in the TMAs, either? The plot thickens....LOL!

[Indrafist]

Wow, are you now saying that there is no stand up fighting in the TMAs, either? The plot thickens....LOL!

I read him as saying that there's probably noTMA or TCMA striking in UK MMA as it's all kick-boxing and Muya-Thai. MT is a TMA, but I accept his broader point - in broad terms i.e. I don't know of any specific TCMA striking training in UK MMA, although I've had no contact with UK MMA guys for a few years: I've no particular reason to doubt that what he says is true to the best of his knowledge and belief, so I'll accept it (provisionally) unless a reliable source says otherwise.

[Dragonzbane76]

HW.
really didn't read through your long spew about whatever. Really don't need to you just write the same things over and over so I get the jist.

anyways, your welcome to your opinion.... and that's all it is an OPINION.

[Dragonzbane76]

WTF has happened to TCMA that there is no one that is willing to stand up for them?

because people whom think that TCMA is some deep secret, and only those willing to throw themselves upon the mercy of a "master" will achieve it. I truely love the TCMA's but people like that keep this foul poison alive which pushes everyone else away. Prime example are very common here.

they've shot themselves in the foot with the hocus pocus show in the beginning, and then started believing the show itself was real.

[R]

You know, I agree with that. My WC sifu would agree too, but he still discourages participation in sports competitions, but he can fight!

Silly question I know but how do you know your sifu can fight? Not that I am questioning his ability, or even yours, since I have never met you or him but what criteria do you use to make such a statement? Is your knowledge gained from watching sparring in your classes? With students from other clubs? With sifu's from other clubs? Stories? Anecdotes from other teachers? What can you tell us to enlighten us? My first experience was when I went to my then teachers house to practice and he handed me some boxing gloves and introduced me to some guys from a different system. He said, by the way, you are fighting that guy over there is a second. Do you guys have challenge matches? Kwoon storming? What exactly provides you with such confidence? We had guys come in and ask to spar hard with the sifu and watched them get dropped. Is this the sort of experience you have to back up your claims? I know wing chun and chow gar guys who are happy to put on the gear and beat the snot out of other people without having any problem with doing it. Are you training in the US? UK? HK? Is there somewhere we can see guys from your school competing with anyone?

You are very confident. I respect that you have seen or done something to feel as you do. Would you care to share whatever it is/was with us

R

[Frost]

I read him as saying that there's probably noTMA or TCMA striking in UK MMA as it's all kick-boxing and Muya-Thai. MT is a TMA, but I accept his broader point - in broad terms i.e. I don't know of any specific TCMA striking training in UK MMA, although I've had no contact with UK MMA guys for a few years: I've no particular reason to doubt that what he says is true to the best of his knowledge and belief, so I'll accept it (provisionally) unless a reliable source says otherwise.

umm what he said, its a broad statement and im not at every show or watch every event on TV but I know a few people in the game and watch a fair bit, a fighter or a gym producing fighters with a TCMA base would become known because it would be unusual

ALan Orrs guys for example, and there was a tai chi guy (sammy something) a few years ago, its unusual enough that they get heard of very quickly, im not knocking TCMA or TMA just stateing that MMA in he UK is not much different from that in the USA, just our wrestling s&cks more lol

[Frost]

Wow, are you now saying that there is no stand up fighting in the TMAs, either? The plot thickens....LOL!

and this is why i say there's no point talking to you, you have an agenda and read everything from that agendas view point, i said nothing of the sort, i simply said there's not that much TMA or TCMA in MMA in the UK, or atleast no more than you see in the USA

I know there's stand up in TMA's because...guess what, i did stand up events during my TCMA days, you really should get out more

[Dragonzbane76]

R,

Everything you asked in your reply above has been asked of him hundreds of times on here. He will side step you with a vague answer. Good luck trying to get any answers or Vids.

[Hardwork108]

HW.
really didn't read through your long spew about whatever. Really don't need to you just write the same things over and over so I get the jist.

anyways, your welcome to your opinion.... and that's all it is an OPINION.

The difference between me and you is that my OPINION of the TCMAs is based on actually practicing authentic traditional kung fu under genuine sifus, while your opinions of the TCMAs are based on you actually practicing modern MMAs.

See what I am getting at?

[Dragonzbane76]

Again your opinion. You absolutely know nothing of my past ergo your opinion. I wouldnt constitute training for a year with a teacher and then the teacher kicking u out a practice in longivity in the arts as with your past. (See its not nice for someone to think they know you just because they
Read something online)
Seriously my opinion is mine your not going to change it. I accept your a purist and your mind will not be changed, let it go.

[Hardwork108]

because people whom think that TCMA is some deep secret,

There are some secrets in the TCMAs, just like in any discipline. If you approach them with a multilevel mindset of study, then you will have better chance of comprehending what they encompass. Of course, you need to find someone who is actually qualified to teach you and that person has to be willing to cover all levels of the arts.

and only those willing to throw themselves upon the mercy of a "master" will achieve it.

Not at the mercy, but what I wrote above refers to learning from a master. The word "master" is not a dirty word and dispite the popular belief amongst the less educated members of the society, has nothing to do with being a "slave to a master"!

It simply means that to learn a given discipline you will need to learn from someone who has MASTERED it on multilevels. So, I guess if you ever wnat to be become a plumber, then it is best to learn from a master plumber. The same thing! Many PHDs that teach in elite universities, such as Harvard and Yale, are masters in their fields.

I truely love the TCMA's but people like that keep this foul poison alive which pushes everyone else away. Prime example are very common here.

Well, loving the TCMAs is a good starting point for you to finally start studying them seriously. It is not too late.

they've shot themselves in the foot with the hocus pocus show in the beginning, and then started believing the show itself was real.

You lost me here. What part of what I have been saying here to find as "bogus"? LOL!

[Dragonzbane76]

Actually that post wasnt directed at u. Someone above asked the question. But u fit the bill on it.

[Hardwork108]

Silly question I know but how do you know your sifu can fight? Not that I am questioning his ability, or even yours, since I have never met you or him but what criteria do you use to make such a statement? Is your knowledge gained from watching sparring in your classes? With students from other clubs? With sifu's from other clubs? Stories? Anecdotes from other teachers? What can you tell us to enlighten us? My first experience was when I went to my then teachers house to practice and he handed me some boxing gloves and introduced me to some guys from a different system. He said, by the way, you are fighting that guy over there is a second. Do you guys have challenge matches? Kwoon storming? What exactly provides you with such confidence? We had guys come in and ask to spar hard with the sifu and watched them get dropped. Is this the sort of experience you have to back up your claims? I know wing chun and chow gar guys who are happy to put on the gear and beat the snot out of other people without having any problem with doing it. Are you training in the US? UK? HK? Is there somewhere we can see guys from your school competing with anyone?

Nothing silly about your question. I will talk about Wing Chun because my main experience is in that. The sifu knows how to fight. He has had challenge matches and street fights. He refers to them occasionally to validate a certain way of dealing with an attack as opposed to another.

When (contact - no gloves) sparring with him, he will still run circles around the best of his students (I am not one of them yet - long story) and he will still manage to beat them without hurting them. The same with me. He can give you pain from impossibly short distances and not be there when you counter.

The man trains like around 5 hours a day. He is physical specimen. Finally, there is one ability I am proud and that is, calling BS when I see it. I have seen plenty in the MAs as I have been to plenty of schools as part of my own on going research into the TMAs - nothing academic, but rather born out of curiousity. So, there is no BS when either of my Sifus are concerned.

They just don't give the importance that many here in these forums give to sports tournament fighting, BUT they can fight and so can their advanced students.

You are very confident. I respect that you have seen or done something to feel as you do. Would you care to share whatever it is/was with us

R

I have seen special things in the Mainland Chinese Lineage of Wing Chun and in Mantis training which was an eye opener. I saw Internal power generation mechanisms and training methodologies that I have not seen anywhere and not anyone in this forum seems to know anything about them either, even if they claim "experience" in Chow Gar.

In Wing Chun (and Mantis) the principles of NOT going back during combat were hammered into me. I don't think that many TCMA practitioners apprecite the wisdom in such an approach, not to mention all the other skills/principles that have to be learned for it to function in order to finish an encounter after a short exchange.

There are a lot of "secrets", but most of them are not out of this world stuff, but well known approaches that many who claim TCMA experience have not learned in their Mc dojos.

One last point. My confidence does not come from thinking that I can beat anyone and I have never claimed superior fighting ability, but I am confident that the little I know of the TCMAs is genuine and effective.

I am also confident that many MMA ists here who have in the past cross trained at drop of a hat, would not have done so if they had experienced the genuine article as regards the TCMAs.