Joe Rogan

[Hardwork108]

Actually that post wasnt directed at u. Someone above asked the question. But u fit the bill on it.

Well if you gather and "master" your attention span for a few short moments, then you will see that I don't "fit the bill" on it!

[Dragonzbane76]

Well if you gather and "master" your attention span for a few short moments, then you will see that I don't "fit the bill" on it!

Haha more than u know, more than u know.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hw8 actually demonstrated a key point in what is wrong with TCMA nowadays when he answered hoe he knew His Sifu can fight:

The sifu knows how to fight. He has had challenge matches and street fights. He refers to them occasionally to validate a certain way of dealing with an attack as opposed to another.

When (contact - no gloves) sparring with him, he will still run circles around the best of his students (I am not one of them yet - long story) and he will still manage to beat them without hurting them. The same with me. He can give you pain from impossibly short distances and not be there when you counter.

The man trains like around 5 hours a day. He is physical specimen. Finally, there is one ability I am proud and that is, calling BS when I see it. I have seen plenty in the MAs as I have been to plenty of schools as part of my own on going research into the TMAs - nothing academic, but rather born out of curiousity. So, there is no BS when either of my Sifus are concerned.

They just don't give the importance that many here in these forums give to sports tournament fighting, BUT they can fight and so can their advanced students.

What we have here is classic:
Anectodal evidence.
Being able to easily defeat his OWN students.
Being in "great shape".

There is only ONE WAY to know whether some can fight and that is to see them fight someone that is a trained fighter.
Period.
If the person in question doesn't fight any longer, then the only way to know that they HAVE fought is a lot tougher of course BUT if they are a teacher then their students WILL fight ( fighters beget fighters) and so, the above criteria is still valid:
If His students fight against OTHER fighters and hold their own.

Anything else, is just, well, nothing at all really.

[Hardwork108]

and this is why i say there's no point talking to you, you have an agenda and read everything from that agendas view point, i said nothing of the sort, i simply said there's not that much TMA or TCMA in MMA in the UK, or atleast no more than you see in the USA

Yes, my "agenda" is to promote the TCMAs in a TCMA forum. Please sir, don't kill me for it.......

I know there's stand up in TMA's because...guess what, i did stand up events during my TCMA days,

It seems that the irony of what I said was lost on you. The fact is that many times the MMA-ists will claim that the TCMAs do not take into account the ground scenario. When one attempts to enlighten them otherwise, the MMA-ists will then claim "decades" of (non-existent) TCMA experience. Then when one looks at some of their profiles, one sees that they train MT and/or Western Boxing for stand up. So, the implication is that "there is no stand up in TCMAs" either....get the irony? LOL!

This means that not only the "decades" of TCMA experience left them clueless as regards the ground fighting aspects of the TCMAs, but also, most of the MMA-ists have not grasped the particular aspects/principles and skills involved in effective stand up kung fu fighting.

you really should get out more

After having seen the TCMA cluelessness of martial artists claiming "decades" of TCMA "experience" - I am actually afraid to "get out more". I mean, what if what you guys have is catching !

[Hardwork108]

Hw8 actually demonstrated a key point in what is wrong with TCMA nowadays when he answered hoe he knew His Sifu can fight:


What we have here is classic:
Anectodal evidence.
Being able to easily defeat his OWN students.
Being in "great shape".

There is only ONE WAY to know whether some can fight and that is to see them fight someone that is a trained fighter.
Period.
If the person in question doesn't fight any longer, then the only way to know that they HAVE fought is a lot tougher of course BUT if they are a teacher then their students WILL fight ( fighters beget fighters) and so, the above criteria is still valid:
If His students fight against OTHER fighters and hold their own.

Anything else, is just, well, nothing at all really.

In the old days, when people had such doubts, they went and challenged the sifu in question.

Also, there is nothing anectodal about many sifus' challenge matches, unless one is calling them a liar.

In one his seminars he let an MMA-ist student (not his student) take him down and take him down HARD on a wooden floor - or "go to work on him", as one of the this forum posters who was present put it. He handled the guy pretty well.

Look the man knows how to fight, but it is my word against those of people who have not met him, so this will go no where.

The point is that just because people don't fight in sports tournaments, does not mean that they can't fight. I am sure that on some level you agree with that, while we both know that there is less evidence if one does not fight in public events.

[Frost]

Yes, my "agenda" is to promote the TCMAs in a TCMA forum. Please sir, don't kill me for it.......



It seems that the irony of what I said was lost on you. The fact is that many times the MMA-ists will claim that the TCMAs do not take into account the ground scenario. When one attempts to enlighten them otherwise, the MMA-ists will then claim "decades" of (non-existent) TCMA experience. Then when one looks at some of their profiles, one sees that they train MT and/or Western Boxing for stand up. So, the implication is that "there is no stand up in TCMAs"....get the irony? LOL!

This means that not only the "decades" of TCMA experience left them clueless as regards the ground fighting aspects of the TCMAs, but also, most of the MMA-ists have not grasped the particular aspects/principles and skills involved in effective stand up kung fu fighting.



After having seen the TCMA cluelessness of martial artists claiming "decades" of TCMA "experience" - I am actually afraid to "get out more". I mean, what if what you guys have is catching !

There was no irony, you simply mis read what I wrote and now cant man up and admit you are wrong so instead off you go on one of your tirades again. It’s sad really

But hey prove me wrong, just admit you didn’t read my post correctly )

[Hardwork108]

Haha more than u know, more than u know.

Well, at last we agree.....

[Hardwork108]

There was no irony, you simply mis read what I wrote and now cant man up and admit you are wrong so instead off you go on one of your tirades again. It’s sad really

But hey prove me wrong, just admit you didn’t read my post correctly )

It seems that you do not have "decades" of experience in irony appreciation, EITHER....LOL!

[sanjuro_ronin]

In the old days, when people had such doubts, they went and challenged the sifu in question.

Also, there is nothing anectodal about many sifus' challenge matches, unless one is calling them a liar.

In one his seminars he let an MMA-ist student (not his student) take him down and take him down HARD on a wooden floor - or "go to work on him", as one of the this forum posters who was present put it. He handled the guy pretty well.

Look the man knows how to fight, but it is my word against those of people who have not met him, so this will go no where.

The point is that just because people don't fight in sports tournaments, does not mean that they can't fight. I am sure that on some level you agree with that, while we both know that there is less evidence if one does not fight in public events.

Anecdotal means word of mouth dude, unless YOU saw those matches they were just that.
I read what happened at that seminar.
I think YOU see what you want to see my friend because I was told something not so quite the same.
But this isnt' really about You or Him, this is about the criteria used in most TCMA to judge is someone is a fighter.
My point is that it is NOT as good a criteria as that which is used in sport combat arts which is ACTUALLY fighting VA another trained fighter.

[Frost]

Im English, we have to deal with irony from an early age, it sets us up well for people like you )

Still doesn’t change the fact you simply cant admit you are wrong

It also seems you cant list your teachers, how long you trained or pretty uch anything else constructive for that matter )

[Hardwork108]

Im English, we have to deal with irony from an early age, it sets us up well for people like you )

So you have trained in irony for "decades" as well, just like you have in the TCMAs? LOL!

Still doesn’t change the fact you simply cant admit you are wrong

I have never had a problem admitting that I was wrong, but it is you who is wrong! I explained to you why I was being ironic, in a rather long post.

It also seems you cant list your teachers, how long you trained or pretty uch anything else constructive for that matter )

Hey you can list all your teachers if you want, but you still have no grasp of fundamental TCMA methodologies - it is all in your posts.

So, me listing teachers that you have no idea about, is not going to solve your problems - meaning, stop grasping at straws!

[Hardwork108]

Anecdotal means word of mouth dude, unless YOU saw those matches they were just that.

Word of mouth can be a lie, but it can also be the true. The fact is that you cannot judge someone's fighting ability soley based on performances in sports events.

In the past, when people had doubts about anecdotal evidence, they would sometimes test the person in question through a challenge. The problem is that most MMA-ists who badmouth the TCMAs would never take a trip to their local China Town to do so with a sifu of good standing. Instead they will use the "evidence" from sports tournaments when more often than not, the "TCMA-ist" who was handed his butt back, knew even less about the TCMAs than the MMA-ist who is using him as an example of Kung fu failure!

[Frost]

Word of mouth can be a lie, but it can also be the true. The fact is that you cannot judge someone's fighting ability soley based on performances in sports events.

In the past, when people had doubts about anecdotal evidence, they would sometimes test the person in question through a challenge. The problem is that most MMA-ists who badmouth the TCMAs would never take a trip to their local China Town to do so with a sifu of good standing. Instead they will use the "evidence" from sports tournaments when more often than not, the "TCMA-ist" who was handed his butt back, knew even less about the TCMAs than the MMA-ist who is using him as an example of Kung fu failure!

easily fixed, if you care that much about it...and god from the amount you post on the subject you must, you step up and prove the MMA crowd wrong, if you dont want to or dont care that much, why the h*ll do you post so much on the subject?

[Hardwork108]

easily fixed, if you care that much about it...and god from the amount you post on the subject you must, you step up and prove the MMA crowd wrong, if you dont want to or dont care that much, why the h*ll do you post so much on the subject?

I would say that you the MMA-ists are the ones who post "so much on the subject". This a Kung fu Forum and your (I mean the general MMA crowd in this forum) every other post seem to be telling us about the "shortcomings" of the TCMAs; the non-existance of the Internals; the non-existance of the ground fighting scenario and etc, etc. Comments made by people who obviously have never practiced authentic TCMAs in their lives and again spewed out in a KUNG FU FORUM.

WHY?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Nothing silly about your question. I will talk about Wing Chun because my main experience is in that. The sifu knows how to fight. He has had challenge matches and street fights. He refers to them occasionally to validate a certain way of dealing with an attack as opposed to another.

When (contact - no gloves) sparring with him, he will still run circles around the best of his students (I am not one of them yet - long story) and he will still manage to beat them without hurting them. The same with me. He can give you pain from impossibly short distances and not be there when you counter.

The man trains like around 5 hours a day. He is physical specimen. Finally, there is one ability I am proud and that is, calling BS when I see it. I have seen plenty in the MAs as I have been to plenty of schools as part of my own on going research into the TMAs - nothing academic, but rather born out of curiousity. So, there is no BS when either of my Sifus are concerned.

They just don't give the importance that many here in these forums give to sports tournament fighting, BUT they can fight and so can their advanced students.





I have seen special things in the Mainland Chinese Lineage of Wing Chun and in Mantis training which was an eye opener. I saw Internal power generation mechanisms and training methodologies that I have not seen anywhere and not anyone in this forum seems to know anything about them either, even if they claim "experience" in Chow Gar.

In Wing Chun (and Mantis) the principles of NOT going back during combat were hammered into me. I don't think that many TCMA practitioners apprecite the wisdom in such an approach, not to mention all the other skills/principles that have to be learned for it to function in order to finish an encounter after a short exchange.

There are a lot of "secrets", but most of them are not out of this world stuff, but well known approaches that many who claim TCMA experience have not learned in their Mc dojos.

One last point. My confidence does not come from thinking that I can beat anyone and I have never claimed superior fighting ability, but I am confident that the little I know of the TCMAs is genuine and effective.

I am also confident that many MMA ists here who have in the past cross trained at drop of a hat, would not have done so if they had experienced the genuine article as regards the TCMAs.

ROTLMAO, so your main focal point is a guy who you don't even train under!!

So all you rants about how no one here knows anything about training methods of TCMA and we're all from McKwoons or whatever and this guy you are using as your great example is not even your Sifu. Wow, that is pathetic on so many levels I can't even muster the words.

Also, got to love the comment about the "little I know of the TCMAs is genuine and effective". If one were to read your garbage they would think you have persued a lifetime of training in TCMA, with all your belittling and insulting of everyone you do not deem "worthy" of knowing what you know, which from the sounds of it, is next to nothing.

The reason I ask you to post evidence is quite simple. Any idiot can get on the computer and claim this and that, but you know what, evidence is what makes people give credit where credit is due. You like to insult myself and others and call us MMAists however it is quite easy from the videos I post and my website which is on my account that I do not teach or practice MMA, but when confronted with this fact you simply use your only arguement, "you guys are wrong because you don't know what I know". Fine, step up to the plate and show us how wrong we are.