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Thread: kuoshu lei tai

  1. #1
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    kuoshu lei tai

    Anyone ever do one of these kuoshu lei tai tournaments?
    Experiences thoughts?

  2. #2
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    The format is slightly kooky (you can knee, but you can't throw inside leg kicks?) but alright. I prefer San Shou and MMA TBH.
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
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  3. #3
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    They are a decent format, but train in the helmet first so you can get used to the lack of vision. Its the only format I have fought under that allowed shoes which is interesting I suppose.
    -Golden Arms-

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    The format is slightly kooky (you can knee, but you can't throw inside leg kicks?) but alright. I prefer San Shou and MMA TBH.
    Actually, unless things have changed dramatically since my involvement, you can indeed throw both inside and outside leg kicks. Although they do want to see them land at least six inches away from the knee.

    I also personally worked very hard to get both elbows and knees back into the events while involved (they had once deleted them from all but world competitions) and eventually succeeded in doing just that.

    My one remaining complaint had to do with the "off the platform" rule as it allows for too much "bull rushing" on the part of larger opponents.

    I am also not real fond of the headcage and never have been. It makes for a constantly guarded nose and this contributes to a great deal of flailing on the part of some combatants.

    Many things changed over the years. I prefer the old ways as it was more real, but I do understand the need for certain safety measures in amateur events.
    One of these days the world is going to become so politically correct that it will scare itself out of existence.

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  5. #5
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    I wish there was a like/thank button on this forum. Certainly both event here that I've taken fighters to have explicitly disallowed inside kicks.
    I also don't like the headguards (I also don't like the San Shou chestguards), and they kinda make elbows redundant.
    I wish we could get away from Lei Tai as well. The ringout rule is just silly, I'd prefer a high sided ring or a cage. One of my guys had a chest injury for months after he fell off the Lei Tai onto his opponent's knee
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  6. #6
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    The UK guys have been trying to get a pro Koushu league going, with no headguards and a ground fast wrestling rule similar to Sambo which looks pretty cool. Not sure what kind of headway they've made though.
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  7. #7
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    I see it as an "inferior" method to Daidojuku.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    I wish there was a like/thank button on this forum. Certainly both event here that I've taken fighters to have explicitly disallowed inside kicks.
    I also don't like the headguards (I also don't like the San Shou chestguards), and they kinda make elbows redundant.
    I wish we could get away from Lei Tai as well. The ringout rule is just silly, I'd prefer a high sided ring or a cage. One of my guys had a chest injury for months after he fell off the Lei Tai onto his opponent's knee

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    The UK guys have been trying to get a pro Koushu league going, with no headguards and a ground fast wrestling rule similar to Sambo which looks pretty cool. Not sure what kind of headway they've made though.
    Hmm... that's odd, Ben. I have never seen a non-standard rule set from any country. Are your Kuoshu events not affilated with I.C.K.F. or U.S.C.K.F.?

    I hear you about the injuries on the platform. One of my heavyweights broke his upper humerous as a result of a 340 lb. opponent falling on him as they went off together.

    Good luck on that pro league. They tried to keep me involved here with the promise of that at the end. But I was so fed up with the internal politics by that time that I just didn't care anymore. Besides which, it never actually happened. I told the powers that be had they proposed it in the late 90's prior to my departure, I would have made it happen for them. I always thought that with a few more rule tweaks, the venue held promise as a great spectator event.
    One of these days the world is going to become so politically correct that it will scare itself out of existence.

    MP 2007

  9. #9
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    I'm more part of the San Shou scene TBH, so I'm not sure on the Kosherness of the events (although I think one was a qualifier for the UK team) These were the rules
    http://www.pro.kuoshu.co.uk/amateur_rules_p2.html
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    I'm more part of the San Shou scene TBH, so I'm not sure on the Kosherness of the events (although I think one was a qualifier for the UK team) These were the rules
    http://www.pro.kuoshu.co.uk/amateur_rules_p2.html
    Well, I sure do see it right there in bold at the top. I was unable to find a page on the current rule set sanctioned by the parent organization (which I see has changed its name once again).

    But if this is a new change, it's not a good one. Oh well.. I don't really keep pace with what they do anymore. Six years of warring with them to change the rules back to what it used to be just plum wore me out. And I was only partially successful at that.

    It's an okay structure, but they really need to look at changing with the times and this is something they have never been real keen on doing.

    So the San Shou Federation is still using chest protectors, eh? What kind of gloves are now being employed if I may ask?
    One of these days the world is going to become so politically correct that it will scare itself out of existence.

    MP 2007

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Patterson View Post
    One of my heavyweights broke his upper humerous as a result of a 340 lb. opponent falling on him as they went off together.
    One of my guys got punched on the head. He was so mad and grabbed his opponent and both fell off the stage with his body weight on top of his opponent. His opponent's head shot didn't end the fight but his body smashing did. The body smashing is a dirty trick. You pretend that you lose balance. The truth is you do it on purpose. The height of the stage will be an excellent place to play that trick. You may not get any point by doing so, but if your opponent can't continue after that, that's all you need. In the ring or cage, you won't have that "Lei Tai height" advantage.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-13-2011 at 03:21 PM.

  12. #12
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    I think it's 12oz over 80kg and 10oz under (for some reason google docs won't load the rules at the moment).
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The body smashing is a dirty trick. You pretend that you lose balance. The truth is you do it on purpose. The height of the stage will be an excellent place to play that trick. You may not get any point by doing so, but if your opponent can't continue after that, that's all you need. In the ring or cage, you won't have that "Lei Tai height" advantage.
    You are 100% correct about that. We've had it done to us and on occasion used it on others that "bullrush" in attempts to just push us off the platform. It's yet another reason that the platform should be abandoned and the scoring rule along with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    I think it's 12oz over 80kg and 10oz under (for some reason google docs won't load the rules at the moment).
    Yeah. Same as before I think. It's the primary reason I passed on the Sanshou Federation back in those days. The heavy gloves plus chest protector negated body impacts entirely too much for my tastes.
    One of these days the world is going to become so politically correct that it will scare itself out of existence.

    MP 2007

  14. #14
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    when we did the AAU tournament, some years back, Javonne Holmes (sp?) did a great hip throw to a guy who bull rushed him, the guy went right off the stage. (moved him right up to the edge where he pivoted and executed a perfect throw) Unfortunately, Holmes gassed in the later round, but he fought really well up till then. I for one, was really impressed with his skill.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
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  15. #15
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    Get Rid of the Platform?

    I hear many people that do not like the platform and the "PUSH OFF" rule. We always have fought on Wrestling mats, but with the same Push Off rule.

    What are some suggestions to modify this? We always trained specifically for push off rules with anti bullrush techniques and such. Should we bring it down and fight only on mats? Should we modify the push out rule, an example would be:

    Pushing out gives you nothing, however lift and throwing someone out gives you extra points and opponent can not be thrown out more than once.

    any thoughts?

    ginosifu

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