The Key to Internal is...

[Hardwork108]

What do you consider genuine TCMA? And don't tell me wing chun

All TCMAs have genuine manifestations and that includes Wing Chun!

IMHO, one is wrong to judge the effectiveness and authenticity of a given style of Kung fu by using the Mcdojo manifestations of it as a benchmark.

[SPJ]

Il like the body paint especially the dew or waterdrops.

They look so real. Wonder how long and how the painter did it.

[Ozzy Dave]

All TCMAs have genuine manifestations and that includes Wing Chun!

IMHO, one is wrong to judge the effectiveness and authenticity of a given style of Kung fu by using the Mcdojo manifestations of it as a benchmark.

Genuine equals effective in a combative situation, yes?

Standing to me is primarily about proprioception, "creating a root" but what many fail to understand is that it must be tested in other forms of training and finally in non-compliant training with a partner.

So even in terms of TCMA its more of an adjunct rather than a base.

Non-compliant training is what MMA does well because it is after all a competitive pursuit.

The internal / external thing is primarily just classification and not about training.

Dave

[bawang]

yes, in the beginning of internal training there is standing post. at advanced stages you move on to squats.

[YouKnowWho]

Standing up is VERY important when practicing the martial arts!

If you lay down on the ground, nobody can knock you down or throw you down. Even better, if you kill yourself, nobody can kill you again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCWHcuXCLRo

[Scott R. Brown]

yes, in the beginning of internal training there is standing post. at advanced stages you move on to squats.

Let's face it, standing IS advanced for some people!

If you lay down on the ground, nobody can knock you down or throw you down. Even better, if you kill yourself, nobody can kill you again.

An excellent strategy that I recommend for most people! Especially drivers in front of me going the speed limit or slower in the fast lane, and anyone who doesn't agree with me 100% on all things and David Jamieson, but NOT David Ross, or bawang his #1 acolyte because that would be like God and his advertising agency killing themselves! The first couldn't happen and the second God wouldn't allow to happen!

[Blacktiger]

Let's face it, standing IS advanced for some people!


Correct!!!

[Dragonzbane76]

breathing in air is advanced for some people.

[Hardwork108]

Genuine equals effective in a combative situation, yes?

Of course genuine TCMA equals effective in a combative situation, because that is what TCMAs were designed, trained and used for.

So, when some characters start calling important TCMA methodologies and concepts fantasy, then I know that they have never trained genuine TCMAs.

Standing to me is primarily about proprioception, "creating a root"

I have been taught that Zhan Zhuang training goes far beyond creating roots. Roots are the first "benefit" of the training, but like so many things related to the relatively profound TCMAs, many practitioners do not go beyond the first step, IMHO.

but what many fail to understand is that it must be tested in other forms of training and finally in non-compliant training with a partner.

So even in terms of TCMA its more of an adjunct rather than a base.

Not if there is more to it than mere roots training.

Non-compliant training is what MMA does well because it is after all a competitive pursuit.

True, but IMHO, all MAs should sooner or later pursue non-compliant training, otherwise they are just fooling themselves.

The internal / external thing is primarily just classification and not about training.

Of course it is about classification for different overall approaches, but don't different approaches require different training methodologies?

[RickMatz]

For me, the power of internal martial arts training is in the cultivation of a calm, clear mind.

I haven't been in a fight for over 30 years, but I find usefulness in having a calm mind every day.

Take the other day for example ...

Best Regards,

Rick

[Robinhood]

There is a very clear difference between internal application and external application, if you don't think there is, then you are external person only thinking you have some internal.

If you have not done standing for years at a minimum, there is no way you no what internal is or could even begin to apply it.

So without the standing training, you are just external guys thinking there is no internal, or maybe hopping there is no internal or thinking your external training will develop internal too, it will not.

So saying what you think it is, just says you don`t know, because if you had it you would clearly know the difference!.

[Ozzy Dave]

Of course genuine TCMA equals effective in a combative situation, because that is what TCMAs were designed, trained and used for.

So how do you measure that?

So, when some characters start calling important TCMA methodologies and concepts fantasy, then I know that they have never trained genuine TCMAs.

Not fantasy, but not necessarily time effective for the returns gained if you look at the overall attribute development required of a combative discipline.

I have been taught that Zhan Zhuang training goes far beyond creating roots. Roots are the first "benefit" of the training, but like so many things related to the relatively profound TCMAs, many practitioners do not go beyond the first step, IMHO.

I disagree but hey it’s only my opinion and experience, “goes far beyond” what does that entail for you?

Of course it is about classification for different overall approaches, but don't different approaches require different training methodologies?

Again, I disagree. The training process is the same.

The base attributes of all combative disciplines can be reduced to courage, strength, speed and changeability. The process of developing those attributes can be different dependent on the strategies and tactics of the individual style and the experience of the practitioner.

My point is that standing practise is ubiquitous to TCMA. I’ve trained in both so called internal and external styles and they all do standing practise but its like all training methods - subject to the laws of diminishing returns beyond a maintenance component after the objectives of the training have been internalised.

Dave

[Scott R. Brown]

There is a very clear difference between internal application and external application, if you don't think there is, then you are external person only thinking you have some internal.

If you have not done standing for years at a minimum, there is no way you no what internal is or could even begin to apply it.

So without the standing training, you are just external guys thinking there is no internal, or maybe hopping there is no internal or thinking your external training will develop internal too, it will not.

So saying what you think it is, just says you don`t know, because if you had it you would clearly know the difference!.

Or maybe internal people are just external practitioners who believe the tripe they have been told that internal is something special and do not understand that all actions are external from the start, otherwise they would NOT be ACTIONS!!!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

What is the key to INTERNALLY lifting 300lbs of deadweight ( barbell for example) off the floor?

[Dragonzbane76]

Youknowwho and I are still waiting for someone to show us the "internal" way to perform a roundhouse.nu