The Key to Internal is...

[Scott R. Brown]

What is the key to INTERNALLY lifting 300lbs of deadweight ( barbell for example) off the floor?

Youknowwho and I are still waiting for someone to show us the "internal" way to perform a roundhouse.nu

You guys are just guys who are internally external instead of externally internal or internally internal and think you are externally external, so you cannot fully understand the internally internal mindset.

Any one can do either one of your feats.....in their own mind! Which is the ONLY REAL form of internal. Any ACTION one performs is ALWAYS external, anything done within one's mind is ALWAYS internal.

Therefore you can do anything internally as long as it stays internal, as in, "within the mind", the real difficulty occurs when one tries to bring their PRETEND world into the REAL world!

[Robinhood]

Or maybe internal people are just external practitioners who believe the tripe they have been told that internal is something special and do not understand that all actions are external from the start, otherwise they would NOT be ACTIONS!!!!!

No, It has nothing to do with belief, it is a very different cause and effect.

If you were able to meet someone who has internal application ability, they should be able to demonstrate the difference on you so you will be able to feel the cause and effect difference.

Someone watching will not be able to see it,he will only see that the one guy was moved with little effort or movement, so people watching will always think it is fake.

So Scott your quest will be to find someone that is willing to let you experience the difference. It won`t be an easy task, for many reasons. Not because no can do it, but more of why should they show you !.

[Scott R. Brown]

No, It has nothing to do with belief, it is a very different cause and effect.

If you were able to meet someone who has internal application ability, they should be able to demonstrate the difference on you so you will be able to feel the cause and effect difference.

Someone watching will not be able to see it,he will only see that the one guy was moved with little effort or movement, so people watching will always think it is fake.

So Scott your quest will be to find someone that is willing to let you experience the difference. It won`t be an easy task, for many reasons. Not because no can do it, but more of why should they show you !.

Well, gee wiz, since I already am a rather proficient practioner of internal applications, I guess I don't need to find someone, which of course is why I feel free making smart a$$ comments about a topic I already KNOW a great deal about. Thanks for the thought though!

[Robinhood]

Well, gee wiz, since I already am a rather proficient practioner of internal applications, I guess I don't need to find someone, which of course is why I feel free making smart a$$ comments about a topic I already KNOW a great deal about. Thanks for the thought though!

I could be wrong, but you don`t sound like you know the difference from the things you say!, tell me something that only an internal guy would know, not something you read in a book.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What is the key to INTERNALLY lifting 300lbs of deadweight ( barbell for example) off the floor?

An answer would be nice....

Or how does one do a hip throw internally?

[Lucas]

by clenching anus

[Scott R. Brown]

I could be wrong, but you don`t sound like you know the difference from the things you say!, tell me something that only an internal guy would know, not something you read in a book.

I understand it does not sound like I understand internal to someone who doesn't really understand it themselves. There is a great deal of wrong information out there about it.

I cannot tell you something only an internal guy would know that is not found it books for a couple of reasons:

One, I don't know what you know or do not know!

Two, you are starting from a false premise. When one starts from a false premise the conclusion they arrive at is false as well!

Since you believe that what you do is internal, EVERYTHING you do is re-interpreted according to your accepted, and false, premise This colors your understanding of the results of your actions causing you to misinterpret them. Since I understand, as sanjuro does, that it is all actually external, I understand it according to how it truly is.

Actions performed by an "Internalist" are still actions, which means they are external. The theories explaining the internal generation of power were developed by people who did not have a clear understanding of bio-mechanics, momentum and human psychology, all of which combine to make external actions "appear" magical or "internal" to the inexperienced.

I can easily demonstrate this fact to anyone in person, but experience has taught me that those who drink the Kool-Ade will not believe anything I say because they don't want to understand their actions in terms of external principles. It involves a change in a world view that takes the magic out of life. It is much more fun to believe in faeries and unicorns, than bio-mechanics and momentum.

But just as an experiment you can try yourself, if anything one does can truly be called internal with qi being the powering force (from the traditional view), try to perform any movement successfully against a resisting opponent who is NOT a student, but experienced in a good, strong bio-mechanically based art like Judo or some form of Ju-jitsu, on one foot. You cannot do it!

It cannot be done, because it is biomechanics that is the powering force, the hips mostly and one must have both feet firmly on the ground in order to generate the proper force necessary. One foot is an unstable base, the narrower the base the more unstable, the wider the base the more stable. This is why you can easily push over a pencil standing on its eraser, but not a book laying on its front of back covers.

[YouKnowWho]

tell me something that only an internal guy would know, not something you read in a book.

- from heel to head.
- from back to front,
- tuck tail bone,
- keep head vertical,
- Sung,
- yield,
- follow,
- stick,
- borrow counter force from the ground,
- sink Qi down,
- Dantien rotation,
- head lead body,
- press on toes and raise head,
- silk reeling,
- ...

[Robinhood]

I understand it does not sound like I understand internal to someone who doesn't really understand it themselves. There is a great deal of wrong information out there about it.

I cannot tell you something only an internal guy would know that is not found it books for a couple of reasons:

One, I don't know what you know or do not know!

Two, you are starting from a false premise. When one starts from a false premise the conclusion they arrive at is false as well!

Since you believe that what you do is internal, EVERYTHING you do is re-interpreted according to your accepted, and false, premise This colors your understanding of the results of your actions causing you to misinterpret them. Since I understand, as sanjuro does, that it is all actually external, I understand it according to how it truly is.

Actions performed by an "Internalist" are still actions, which means they are external. The theories explaining the internal generation of power were developed by people who did not have a clear understanding of bio-mechanics, momentum and human psychology, all of which combine to make external actions "appear" magical or "internal" to the inexperienced.

I can easily demonstrate this fact to anyone in person, but experience has taught me that those who drink the Kool-Ade will not believe anything I say because they don't want to understand their actions in terms of external principles. It involves a change in a world view that takes the magic out of life. It is much more fun to believe in faeries and unicorns, than bio-mechanics and momentum.

But just as an experiment you can try yourself, if anything one does can truly be called internal with qi being the powering force (from the traditional view), try to perform any movement successfully against a resisting opponent who is NOT a student, but experienced in a good, strong bio-mechanically based art like Judo or some form of Ju-jitsu, on one foot. You cannot do it!

It cannot be done, because it is biomechanics that is the powering force, the hips mostly and one must have both feet firmly on the ground in order to generate the proper force necessary. One foot is an unstable base, the narrower the base the more unstable, the wider the base the more stable. This is why you can easily push over a pencil standing on its eraser, but not a book laying on its front of back covers.

Nice try, but you still sound like you don`t know the difference, so you are probably still doing external thinking nothing else excist.

It is not biomechanics, it does not apply to inanimate objects. It does not matter if the other person believes, he just needs to be alive and awake.

Also proper force is not required either, so given you have so many components wrong just tells me you are still trying to apply external force which is not internal energy.

Sure if I was applying external force I would then need all those things.

So what you are doing to me would be called external.

[Robinhood]

- from heel to head.
- from back to front,
- tuck tail bone,
- keep head vertical,
- Sung,
- yield,
- follow,
- stick,
- borrow counter force from the ground,
- sink Qi down,
- Dantien rotation,
- head lead body,
- press on toes and raise head,
- silk reeling,
- ...

These are a good list of conditions for proper practice, but what really makes everything work?

[Scott R. Brown]

Nice try, but you still sound like you don`t know the difference, so you are probably still doing external thinking nothing else excist.

It is not biomechanics, it does not apply to inanimate objects. It does not matter if the other person believes, he just needs to be alive and awake.

Also proper force is not required either, so given you have so many components wrong just tells me you are still trying to apply external force which is not internal energy.

Sure if I was applying external force I would then need all those things.

So what you are doing to me would be called external.

Drink your Kool-Ade and enjoy your dreams. Anyone with a good amount of experience and an understanding of bio-mechanics can easily negate any of your fantasy abilities because reality overcomes fantasy every time.

[Scott R. Brown]

Here is another thing to try to demonstrate the fantasy of internal:

If internal power is REAL, use it against a 280# Sumo Wrestler or a Pro NFL Lineman. Size should not matter if one is using REAL internal power! I prefer to see your proof demonstrated against the Sumo Wrestler since he has more experience using Bio-Mechanics in a martial atmosphere.

Demos for internal power are always used against the inexperience, and students, but if it can work in real life it can work against an experienced Sumo Wrestler.

Good Luck!

[Robinhood]

Here is another thing to try to demonstrate the fantasy of internal:

If internal power is REAL, use it against a 280# Sumo Wrestler or a Pro NFL Lineman. Size should not matter if one is using REAL internal power! I prefer to see your proof demonstrated against the Sumo Wrestler since he has more experience using Bio-Mechanics in a martial atmosphere.

Demos for internal power are always used against the inexperience, and students, but if it can work in real life it can work against an experienced Sumo Wrestler.

Good Luck!

I said nothing about having power, that is your version. I would use the word energy.

l don`t think l have extra power, that is bio mechanical, I have no extra power, but I would look at it more as being a more efficient way of using and applying the parts in a way that is more beneficial to the encounter.

If you encounter me you would think I have a lot of power but I am not using much energy, the less I use the stronger I will feel.

l would say a Summo guy is using a good portion of internal energy.
'
Application to different situations depends on the dynamics of the exchange.

[Scott R. Brown]

I said nothing about having power, that is your version. I would use the word energy.

l don`t think l have extra power, that is bio mechanical, I have no extra power, but I would look at it more as being a more efficient way of using and applying the parts in a way that is more beneficial to the encounter.

If you encounter me you would think I have a lot of power but I am not using much energy, the less I use the stronger I will feel.

l would say a Summo guy is using a good portion of internal energy.
'
Application to different situations depends on the dynamics of the exchange.

It is immaterial what word you choose to use to describe or define your skills/abilities. Energy, power, doesn't matter. The fact you consider your skills a more efficient use of energy demonstrates my point. Your comment, "I would look at is more as being a more efficient way of using and applying the parts in a way that is more beneficial to the encounter." is nothing more than an efficient use of biomechanics and momentum.

The reason you "feel" like you are using less energy when executing a skill is because you are able to use momentum and biomechanical leverage efficiently, which requires less physical power/ force/muscle. Even so called, "Externalists" understand this principle and use it. Only, so called, "Internalist" separate this unified concept into two meaningless categories.

[Robinhood]

It is immaterial what word you choose to use to describe or define your skills/abilities. Energy, power, doesn't matter. The fact you consider your skills a more efficient use of energy demonstrates my point. Your comment, "I would look at is more as being a more efficient way of using and applying the parts in a way that is more beneficial to the encounter." is nothing more than an efficient use of biomechanics and momentum.

The reason you "feel" like you are using less energy when executing a skill is because you are able to use momentum and biomechanical leverage efficiently, which requires less physical power/ force/muscle. Even so called, "Externalists" understand this principle and use it. Only, so called, "Internalist" separate this unified concept into two meaningless categories.

You can say whatever you want, but I am sure that I am not using my bio mechanics the way you think I am. There is a lot more to it than momentum and bio mechanics, but I can not discuss this if you do not have it. It is like a language you don't know.

If Chi does not excist, why do Chinese have acupuncture?

Chi is like gravity, can you see gravity, is it bio mechanical?, just because you cannot use Chi does not mean other people can't.

Doing your external exercises will not develop your Chi, and your bio mechanical momentum is not useing Chi.

So if you want to think you are doing internal too, without doing the training, you might be the one drinking the kool-aid.