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Thread: Should San Shou be open to all competitors and styles?

  1. #46
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    if you got 3 or 4 guys on you I don't care what you specialize in grappling/stand up/clinch your toast. You cannot fight that many people I don't care what secret tech. some buddist master taught you, your going down and there is nothing you can do about it. The best you can do is run away before they get you cornered. Hopefully you are faster.

    best defense in that sit. would be a gun. Equalize things out a bit.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  2. #47
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    if you got 3 or 4 guys on you I don't care what you specialize in grappling/stand up/clinch your toast. You cannot fight that many people I don't care what secret tech. some buddist master taught you, your going down and there is nothing you can do about it. The best you can do is run away before they get you cornered. Hopefully you are faster.

    best defense in that sit. would be a gun. Equalize things out a bit.
    If you can't run, i feel the best bet is to keep on the move and try not to be caught in a position where they are all around you. try to keep them in front. still this is a situation where if you have to stay and fight.....FIGHT YOUR ASS OFF.....it can be done. lets not forget that one guy in a video sticking and moving on i think more than five guys

    Still, the one thing about San Shou that works on the street nicely is body slams and throws.

    Sparring multiple people at the same time is a good method that works if you are in a situation with 3-4 guys surrounding you. the more you do it, the better you get. This is what saved my student when he got surrounded by 5 guys with knives and screw drivers. he told me our training helped out alot.
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 10-19-2011 at 04:25 PM.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
    when he's around quick to ground and pound a clown
    Bruh we thought you knew better
    when it comes to head huntin, ain't no one can do it better

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    That was my idea. In one of my student's school, he always puts 3 guys into the ring and fight against each other. I do think one can develop some useful experience that way - mobility, alert, use one opponent to jam another opponent, ...
    its fun stuff. in my old kungfu school we used to form a ring with one guy in the center and you start sparring 1 guy, break then 2 then 3 then 4 at a certain point all you can do is try and move and shield, you cant 'win', especially not in that scenario, but it does help you to find avenues of escape when several people are trying to get to you. you cant learn to swim by looking at the water.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  4. #49
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    learn to shot a gun. You would be suprised the effect it has when you pull one out. People seem to stop and take you seriously at that point. a group of 3-4-5 people see a gun pulled when they have someone cornered will think twice before rushing in.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    learn to shot a gun. You would be suprised the effect it has when you pull one out. People seem to stop and take you seriously at that point. a group of 3-4-5 people see a gun pulled when they have someone cornered will think twice before rushing in.
    qft. " god made man but samuel colt made them equal"?
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    learn to shot a gun.
    The firearm may not be available in many parts of the world. In Taiwan, when I was young, onetime I carried an aluminum sword (very shining but breakable) in a group fight and it scared a lot of people away.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Pina View Post
    Those styles are all represented in MMA. MMA is not a style, it's a sport. A set of rules for a combat sport.




    I agree and disagree with you here.

    I think MMA slightly favors grapplers, not because the ground can go on and on, but because if someone fails a shoot, you can't clobber the back of their head.... in that instance the risk/reward ratio isn't fair.

    I appreciate long drown out ground games. It's each person's responsibility to improve their position.... that's regardless of where you find yourself (circling, against the cage, on your back). Negating that element is like telling a kick boxer not to use his hands..... people have developed entire games based around their ground game, or just the fear of it.

    As for San Shou, I like it, but I don't like the headgear and the big gloves combined with quick breakage.... also usually combined with small rings. It often becomes sloppy and frantic..... MMA more accurately depicts the flow and tempo of a real fight.

    If I would change anything, it would be to a single 20 min round format. If in 20 mins no one is KOed or tapped it's a draw.
    MMA is going more towards becoming a "style" itself with the emergence of gyms which teach MMA or freestyle, basically focusing on striking, clinch, and groundwork. Honestyly it is semantics to argue style anyway, one's own method of fighting can be considered a style.


    It's all about situational training man. A San Shou guy may or may not do well in MMA, it depends on him, the guy he is fighting, and how well his takedown defense is. But again there are those, myself included, who are not interested in competing in MMA and would rather do San Shou, it's all in preference man. Remember, a San Shou guy with no training in submissions would most likely not fare well in a BJJ tournament, however, a BJJ guy with only BJJ would likely not fare well in a San Shou tournament.

    As for the issue of street fighting, no matter what you want to do you still could likely end up on the ground. Personally I would rather clinch, get head control, reign some knees, and dump the f**ucker on his head and move on to his buddy if it is multiple opponents, but that's just me. Fighting multiple opponents is always a losing battle, better to get out of that situation by all means if possible.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  8. #53
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    The firearm may not be available in many parts of the world. In Taiwan, when I was young, onetime I carried an aluminum sword (very shining but breakable) in a group fight and it scared a lot of people away.
    in the u.s. any crazy can own a gun

    but i understand your point.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    i have computer/internet access at work and often start posting then forget then come back to it
    I know.... I blew a good portion of my work day talking smack here when I should be writing.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    That was my idea. In one of my student's school, he always puts 3 guys into the ring and fight against each other. I do think one can develop some useful experience that way - mobility, alert, use one opponent to jam another opponent, ...
    A fun game we play sometimes goes like this:

    one man is IT


    He takes down someone, they are both IT

    They take more people down. By themselves or together.

    You start off actually attacking a crowd..... in the end, the last man is avoiding, fighting off the whole room.

    You can play just grabs, throws and tackles, sweeps, etc.

    Or you can play with boxing gloves too.

    Good training. Fun.

  11. #56
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The firearm may not be available in many parts of the world. In Taiwan, when I was young, onetime I carried an aluminum sword (very shining but breakable) in a group fight and it scared a lot of people away.
    Awesome!

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Eagle_76 View Post
    Do you believe that TCMA tournaments that hold San Shou events should limit participation to only TCMA practioners or should any style be allowed to compete under these rules. Personnally I think it would go a long way to allow all styles to compete under San Shou instead of trying to make it strictly for Kung Fu. Thoughts?
    I agree with you 100% (and that is what is so frightening! )!

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwork108 View Post
    I agree with you 100% (and that is what is so frightening! )!
    It's ok, your transformation to the dark side is nearly complete!!

    Last edited by Iron_Eagle_76; 10-20-2011 at 05:12 AM.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Arms View Post
    San Shou is an open format, its a set of rules that anyone can fight under. I have only fought in a few fights where it was set up to favor members of the organization for some reason other than them wanting you to join to give them some income (like it or not any competitive venue is likely going to be controlled by money as it grows).

    The funny thing to me is that in the 7 years of San Shou fighting that I did, I only fought members of Chinese martial arts schools about 20% of the time, and much of that was in the first 2 years. Chinese schools by and large do not appear to fight much.

    A good method seems to be to offer Judo/BJJ, Pancration/MMA of some sort, kickboxing or continuous stand up sparring with heavy contact, and San Shou all at the same event. That way there is some cross over, the people that want to fight can fight in multiple venues and there are more bodies.

    Having been on the judging/ref side of things a few times I see why that doesnt usually work out as well though. Finding people that will judge or ref honestly (or even volunteer) is difficult, and money is usually tight.
    Thanks for your insight, GA, interesting to say the least. The great thing about San Shou is it is a format that allows pretty much any stand up style or grappling and throwing style (wrestling and judo) to compete. Again it depends on perspective as there are competitors who have little interest in doing MMA but enjoy kickboxing and San Shou because of the emphasis on stand up.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Eagle_76 View Post
    The great thing about San Shou is it is a format that allows pretty much any stand up style or grappling and throwing style (wrestling and judo) to compete.
    Yes, but they can't apply their craft on the ground.

    I don't know what to consider myself these days. I certainly like to knock people down but I've come to appreciate transitions to single and double legs..... with that said, I finish from side control. That's my game. Either ground and pound or work an American/Kimora.

    I'll improve position and take advantage of opportunities arising, but generally that's my game plan.

    There's as much space for that in San Shou as there is in a TKD tournament. We can all join a TKD tournament, too. But then we can't punch the head, can't capture kicks, ect.

    MMA has its rules too which are limiting. But they're the rules with the widest birth that we have today. And they're pretty fair and balanced well to protect fighters and ensure action.

    With that said, and this goes to the multiple guys over glass crowd, there is Vale Tudo outside of the U.S. You can poke eyes, pinch, do what you like..... TCMA is not represented there either.

    Earlier I was accused of using a double standard. But in actuality, it's the reverse. Karate, TKD, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai boxing, wester kick boxing, BJJ, Judo, pancreation, Freestyle..... all of these styles have been effective in the UFC. But the rules don't favor Kung Fu? Which is supposed to have been the foundation for all of these others?

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