Why doesn't TCMA include ground-grappling?

[Frost]

Guys why are you bothering? Seriously if you are happy in your training why spent so much time arguing over points we all know we will never budge over? Its not like anyone on this thread is going to say…wait you are right I have been wrong all along thanks for the insight…..its not going to happen and we all know it so why bother?

[David Jamieson]

Guys why are you bothering? Seriously if you are happy in your training why spent so much time arguing over points we all know we will never budge over? Its not like anyone on this thread is going to say…wait you are right I have been wrong all along thanks for the insight…..its not going to happen and we all know it so why bother?

gimme a break.

people jump into the kungfu forum here and start baiting kung fu people with mma vs arguments.

Why should anyone say they were wrong for undertaking to train Kung Fu?

There is nothing more or less unusual about that than undertaking anything else.
Of all the wasted energy people put into their efforts, arguing about BJJ, Muay Thai, catch wrestling, judo etc etc in a Kung Fu forum is the height of retardedness in my opinion and attempting to bait and shove opinions down peoples throats based on whatever is lame as well.

Truth is that everyone has something to learn form everyone.

Many Kung Fu guys are adapting a lot of their training methods and picking up from modern methods and working them into their routines. And keeping the old stuff too because it does have value.

But on the other side of that coin? Yeah, that's the interesting part. lol

[Iron_Eagle_76]

gimme a break.

people jump into the kungfu forum here and start baiting kung fu people with mma vs arguments.

Why should anyone say they were wrong for undertaking to train Kung Fu?

There is nothing more or less unusual about that than undertaking anything else.
Of all the wasted energy people put into their efforts, arguing about BJJ, Muay Thai, catch wrestling, judo etc etc in a Kung Fu forum is the height of retardedness in my opinion and attempting to bait and shove opinions down peoples throats based on whatever is lame as well.

Truth is that everyone has something to learn form everyone.

Many Kung Fu guys are adapting a lot of their training methods and picking up from modern methods and working them into their routines. And keeping the old stuff too because it does have value.

But on the other side of that coin? Yeah, that's the interesting part. lol

Truth is that everyone has something to learn form everyone.

Not really. There are many people on this forum who bring with them knowledge and experience regarding Kung Fu and other styles of martial arts that they have trained extensively in and provide valid advice and training method discussions which I find of great value.

There are others who sh***it up the forum with neverending crap and arguments taht they never provide any kind of concrete or substantial evidence or even ideologies that they could easily explain or show, and turns into a "you don't know what I know". I learn and advance in both skills and thought everyday, but is not from the likes of these kind.

[Ray Pina]

Guys why are you bothering? Seriously if you are happy in your training why spent so much time arguing over points we all know we will never budge over? Its not like anyone on this thread is going to say…wait you are right I have been wrong all along thanks for the insight…..its not going to happen and we all know it so why bother?

Oh, I know.

I just like calling people out on their bull****.


Think of how much ego goes into creating a whole website dedicated to your mastering of martial arts.... and then none of these bums ever fight

Guys like Novell talking $hit while out of breath jogging, about how he's keeping it real .... zero sanctioned fights.

Articles on guys walking the circle with bawling balls.... that one was hilarious!

And now the recent kicker.... TCMA has a very good ground game suitable for real war, where you don't want to "hug a man". Just not suitable for matted gyms where wrestlers, Judokai, BJJers and real grapplers converge..... not suitable to be tested.

And then there's the couple guys who do TCMA while training MMA.... they might as well attribute any MMA success to any other hobby they have, fly fishing for instance.

Generally, Kung Fu stinks and nobody has done nothing with it to make me think otherwise. Ping-pong has a couple unique, jing-like flip of the wrist moves.... doesn't impress me for fighting.

[Northwind]

Generally, Kung Fu stinks and nobody has done nothing with it to make me think otherwise. Ping-pong has a couple unique, jing-like flip of the wrist moves.... doesn't impress me for fighting.

Dude if Kung Fu stinks, PLEASE F*****ing LEAVE the KUNG FU Forum.

[YouKnowWho]

Kung Fu stinks .

You can use Kung Fu to knock the sh!t out of people and that's why it's "stink".

[Taixuquan99]

And then there's the couple guys who do TCMA while training MMA.... they might as well attribute any MMA success to any other hobby they have, fly fishing for instance.

I'm glad you're pointing out THOSE guys BS. Does it ever feel a bit schizophrenic?

[ginosifu]

Generally, Kung Fu stinks and nobody has done nothing with it to make me think otherwise. Ping-pong has a couple unique, jing-like flip of the wrist moves.... doesn't impress me for fighting.

Ray,
You are using a narrow minded approach to your observations of Kung Fu. The people around you or the people you know, may not have done well with Kung Fu. On a whole..... how do you know what the rest of the world has done using Kung Fu?

I did pretty well with it, so did my teacher (He was a kickboxing champion back in that Chuck Norris era 70's & 80's). Just because you don't see any good Kung Fu guys out there, does not mean they do not exist. Also it does not mean that Kung Fu is no good, you just have not seen it first hand.

In the end, I feel confident that if would ever get into a scuffle that I would be prepared. There are many more like me and my teacher who have done well using Kung Fu.

ginosifu

[Iron_Eagle_76]

On a related note, I have found that using the following partners when practicing grappling make it much more fun:

http://www.youtube.com/user/knockout...13/A6a9RYoHHBI

Who would have thought!!

[Ray Pina]

You are using a narrow minded approach to your observations of Kung Fu. The people around you or the people you know, may not have done well with Kung Fu. On a whole..... how do you know what the rest of the world has done using Kung Fu?

I turn on Spike Channel and watch the UFC... never see Kung Fu.

Then I open magazines and people's web sites and see fake monks posing on their ancestors graves with fake weapons, white guys dressed like jack a$$es doing drunk form.... people beating foam noodles. Then they post how they're for real and high level.

That's how I know.

I did pretty well with it, so did my teacher (He was a kickboxing champion back in that Chuck Norris era 70's & 80's).

Champion of what? What sanctioned event? What was his record to be champion in what year?

[Ray Pina]

That one was so funny I got to get back to it.

If Kung Fu was even somewhat decent at producing competent combatives we would see them.

We see form.
We see internal.
We see weapons.
We see lion and dragon dancing.
We see monks and incense


That is what Kung Fu does. So that is what we see of Kung Fu.

If Kung Fu worked its stand up seriously. Sparred regularly... we would seem them well represented in open competition, even if they were "somewhat competent" ... say along the lines of TKD.

If Kung FU was even somewhat competent at its ground game, trained realistically with resistance. Had a developed program.... we would see it represented in Grapplers Quest, and similar open grappling tournaments.

Again, we don't see Kung Fu in wither of those venues.

If a healthy population are engaged in both of those activities, a percentage would wind up in open competition. Kung Fu people feel comfortable competing in form because they're not trained to fight.

It's that simple. You can use a million words to explain it and it doesn't mean anything until TCMA produces somebody that can go out and compete with the rest of the world. Not champions of venues no one worth their salt would be caught dead at..... ie, True2Form and essentially push-hand tournaments dubbed as full contact world championships.

How do you people sleep with yourselves as night?

[Lucas]

ray, have you ever watched something like chinese international/national sanda/sanshou championships?

here is a clip of some takedowns/throws from the world wushu championships:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54GMwDyBi5A&feature=fvsr

thats just one clip. you may not like the rules, or the headgear or the gloves. but man i would put the same challenge to you that you are putting to everyone else. go find out for yourself. see how your standup/takedown/throwing game is alongside those competators, many of which are cma trained, and enter the next international wushu championships and see how well you fair. maybe you take gold, maybe you dont even place, but just maybe you walk away with a new respect for aspects you didnt know existed.

you're looking for how cma works in the sport world, for that you must look at sanshou/sanda. that is cma sport fighting.

[YouKnowWho]

If Kung Fu was even somewhat decent at producing competent combatives we would see them.

We see form.
We see internal.
We see weapons.
We see lion and dragon dancing.
We see monks and incense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eVGBLUSHf8

Ray:

This guy has "no" training in boxing, MT, wrestling, Judo, and BJJ. His fighting style is 100% TCMA which include:

- long fist,
- mantis,
- Baji,
- Taiji,
- WC,
- SC.

He has Sanshou record of 18-4 under his belt. Within 15 seconds, he could apply his roundhouse kick, side kick, punch, bear hug, knee, outer leg hook throw combo twice in a role. That's not by luck. It was pure skill and his opponent was not weak either.

[MightyB]

On a related note, I have found that using the following partners when practicing grappling make it much more fun:

http://www.youtube.com/user/knockout...13/A6a9RYoHHBI

Who would have thought!!

I want to go to there.

[ginosifu]

I turn on Spike Channel and watch the UFC... never see Kung Fu.

I have many NON martial arts people that I talk with on a daily basis. Every last one of them who ever watched a spike channel UFC match says the same thing to me: "Sifu what is that stuff on Spike Channel? It looks like they are just brawling, no skill just guys laying on top of each other in their under pants".

Then I open magazines and people's web sites and see fake monks posing on their ancestors graves with fake weapons, white guys dressed like jack a$$es doing drunk form.... people beating foam noodles. Then they post how they're for real and high level.

Again why would you look in a magazine? Which websites? How do I know which kung fu schools you are talking about? There are schools that focus on forms and perfromance and then there are schools that focus on fighting like mine. If you want to see a fighting kung fu school in action, then go to there school and see what they are about and quit assuming.

Ray,
I did pretty well with it, so did my teacher (He was a kickboxing champion back in that Chuck Norris era 70's & 80's). Just because you don't see any good Kung Fu guys out there, does not mean they do not exist. Also it does not mean that Kung Fu is no good, you just have not seen it first hand.

Champion of what? What sanctioned event? What was his record to be champion in what year?

He was fighting in the USKF (united states kickboxing federation) He was ranked 3rd nationally 6 years in a row. Look it up, his name is John Ervin Jr.

I fought in the USSA (united states Shuai Chiao association) My national Shuai Chiao record was 35 - 0. My San Shou record was 14 - 1 look them up.

ginosifu