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Thread: Why doesn't TCMA include ground-grappling?

  1. #196
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    Talking

    We do ground fighting. We just don't like it because of THE TIGER FORK.

  2. #197

    Why doesn ' t TCMA include ground grappling ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
    Some say it does, some say it doesn't...I tend to think the latter. But let's talk about WHY. In some 2000 years and 300 styles of kung fu this never occurred to anyone? Seriously?

    EO
    Eric , do you know who Sifu Yang Jwing Ming is ? Go and ask him about Kung Fu ground grappling his 2 - students have already written a book on kung fu ground grappling . You don ' t need to go through the forms like I mentioned before , instead you learn the techniques directly . Actually BJJ , judo all was influenced by chinese martial arts long time ago .

    Because you see inorder to learn kung fu ground grappling you have to learn the techniques too as well as experimenting it on a partner too . You did ' nt mention about tournament type of ground grappling , so I ' ll talk about ground grappling in the streets . If some one mounts you to the ground , he ' s probably going to try to blast you with blows to your face , so while that ' s happening , before you try to pound him too , and at the sametime use your legs move your body in a way that you can get him off you , and at the same time protecting your face . the idea is to get out of the mounted position so you can get your opponent in a spot where you can take control over him . Otherwise you still going be in the same spot . If some one applies a right headlock on you , you can use your right arm to wrap around the opponents' right arm and apply the headlock back on your opponent , and apply pressure on your move , techniquelly the pressure going be on his right arm . I ' ve done this technique myself too it really work for me . You just need to stufy how the grappling techniques work . Other than that , you can strike the opponent preventing the person from applying grappling techniques on you . You can go for the opponents' eyes , grab his groin with a tiger claw .hand ,pull his hair back . Learn chin na techniques which are design for the entire body .But like I said go and plug in with Sifu Yanf Jwing Ming .

  3. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Pina View Post
    That one was so funny I got to get back to it.

    If Kung Fu was even somewhat decent at producing competent combatives we would see them.

    We see form.
    We see internal.
    We see weapons.
    We see lion and dragon dancing.
    We see monks and incense


    That is what Kung Fu does. So that is what we see of Kung Fu.

    If Kung Fu worked its stand up seriously. Sparred regularly... we would seem them well represented in open competition, even if they were "somewhat competent" ... say along the lines of TKD.

    If Kung FU was even somewhat competent at its ground game, trained realistically with resistance. Had a developed program.... we would see it represented in Grapplers Quest, and similar open grappling tournaments.

    Again, we don't see Kung Fu in wither of those venues.

    If a healthy population are engaged in both of those activities, a percentage would wind up in open competition. Kung Fu people feel comfortable competing in form because they're not trained to fight.

    It's that simple. You can use a million words to explain it and it doesn't mean anything until TCMA produces somebody that can go out and compete with the rest of the world. Not champions of venues no one worth their salt would be caught dead at..... ie, True2Form and essentially push-hand tournaments dubbed as full contact world championships.

    How do you people sleep with yourselves as night?
    You are becoming more and more painful to read by the day. No,...really....who the **** do you think you are? Just cause you went out experience your way you believe to be entitled to pee on every body else head???? Why don't you just go and **** yourself you greasy joint smoker?????

    I posted the below link in another thread but it seems like you did purposely skip it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaUxI6R-79o&feature=fvsr

    This guy's stand up game is purely Kung Fu, Hop Gar that is, and the way he moves it's the way the style moves and he does a combo that is also straight out of a form

    So it seems that there are people out there testing themselves (even though perhaps not enough) so, all you have seen it appears it's not all there is to see you arrogant ****.

    Oh,...btw,.. you keep talking about Black Taoist (which I do not know) but I recall he did invite you to visit him in NY, why don't you just go and "awake" him with all your "god like" skills????? Pls do that and post the video afterwards yeah..?!

    Thank you for trying to awake all of us sleeping idiots you "new born Christian" in your quest of world conversion.

  4. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by GruBianca View Post

    I posted the below link in another thread but it seems like you did purposely skip it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaUxI6R-79o&feature=fvsr

    This guy's stand up game is purely Kung Fu, Hop Gar that is, and the way he moves it's the way the style moves and he does a combo that is also straight out of a form
    Interesting clip and thanks for posting. Of course, we might get the usual "the other guy was a bad MMA-ist, because if he was good, the Kung fu guy would have had no chance", and the usual clueless repetitions that the TCMAs don't address ground fighting, because of the even more clueless, "I and my 'decades' of 'experience' have not seen it"!

    Thanks again.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by GruBianca View Post
    You are becoming more and more painful to read by the day. No,...really....who the **** do you think you are? Just cause you went out experience your way you believe to be entitled to pee on every body else head???? Why don't you just go and **** yourself you greasy joint smoker?????

    I posted the below link in another thread but it seems like you did purposely skip it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaUxI6R-79o&feature=fvsr

    This guy's stand up game is purely Kung Fu, Hop Gar that is, and the way he moves it's the way the style moves and he does a combo that is also straight out of a form

    So it seems that there are people out there testing themselves (even though perhaps not enough) so, all you have seen it appears it's not all there is to see you arrogant ****.

    Oh,...btw,.. you keep talking about Black Taoist (which I do not know) but I recall he did invite you to visit him in NY, why don't you just go and "awake" him with all your "god like" skills????? Pls do that and post the video afterwards yeah..?!

    Thank you for trying to awake all of us sleeping idiots you "new born Christian" in your quest of world conversion.
    nice clip thanks for posting, the hands remind me of the little CLF i have done, nice strikes into takedowns

  6. #201
    Glad you liked it. I believe that the guy in the video deserves more exposure as much as his school as they are certainly representing very well the style and kung fu in general.

  7. #202
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    Question

    You'll have to excuse my ignorance, us Brits don't seem to use as many Acronyms as our American cousins.. What does TCMA stand for? I know what MMA is but what's TCMA? Is it "something" Chinese Martial Arts?

    Kev
    This is my Dad, he works in an abattoir...

  8. #203
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    Traditional chinese martial art

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxattck View Post
    Traditional chinese martial art
    Thanks maxattck
    This is my Dad, he works in an abattoir...

  10. #205
    This and the other thread here in the main forums prove beyond doubt, what many of us knew years ago, that the TCMAs address the ground scenario.

    The problem, as always, have been the schools that did not teach these arts in a complete manner, including even, the striking aspects - hence we have this general cluelessness as regards the SCOPE of these rich and profound arts.

    So, the best advice as always is to find the right schools to train in. This is easier said than done, but if you want to learn then you need to search!

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwork108 View Post
    This and the other thread here in the main forums prove beyond doubt, what many of us knew years ago, that the TCMAs address the ground scenario.

    The problem, as always, have been the schools that did not teach these arts in a complete manner, including even, the striking aspects - hence we have this general cluelessness as regards the SCOPE of these rich and profound arts.

    So, the best advice as always is to find the right schools to train in. This is easier said than done, but if you want to learn then you need to search!
    Personally, while I understand your point of view and somewhat agree with it, perhaps it has more to do with the individual teachers rather than the "style" itself. The teacher didn't the initiative him/herself to train in all ranges (referring specifically to grappling but can apply to other ranges as well) despite whether the instructor or "master" taught it to them.

    Then this individual teaches this way to students, and so on. It takes a special martial artist to be creative with what they've been handed, and make something more of it. The sad is that this is not as encouraged as it should be in the martial arts, despite every other human activity that does.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwork108 View Post
    This and the other thread here in the main forums prove beyond doubt, what many of us knew years ago, that the TCMAs address the ground scenario.

    The problem, as always, have been the schools that did not teach these arts in a complete manner, including even, the striking aspects - hence we have this general cluelessness as regards the SCOPE of these rich and profound arts.

    So, the best advice as always is to find the right schools to train in. This is easier said than done, but if you want to learn then you need to search!
    actually the clip posted showed TCMA stand up, and where his ground work comes from wasnt identifed

  13. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Fa Xing View Post
    Personally, while I understand your point of view and somewhat agree with it, perhaps it has more to do with the individual teachers rather than the "style" itself. The teacher didn't the initiative him/herself to train in all ranges (referring specifically to grappling but can apply to other ranges as well) despite whether the instructor or "master" taught it to them.

    Then this individual teaches this way to students, and so on. It takes a special martial artist to be creative with what they've been handed, and make something more of it. The sad is that this is not as encouraged as it should be in the martial arts, despite every other human activity that does.
    Of course it is the teachers, or those who refer to themselves as "sifus". Most of them are not sifus, and have been taught a half baked empty shell version of a rich complete system - just enough to impress the non-initiated, so to speak.

    I also agree with you in that some teachers may not have had the initiative (or the attention span) to train their systems completely, but then how come they were "certified" as sifus, if at all? I know that in my WC school, you are not going to be a sifu if you have not competed the syllabus that includes - ground fighting, Iron Palm/skills, etc. THis means that a lot of these people, as skillful as they may be in some aspects of kung fu, are not qualified to teach, hence their students, including the ones who post in this forum are not qualified to make sweeping and generalized statements as to their perceived "shortcomings" of the TCMAs.

    Anyway, it seems that no matter what one does while discussing these things one ends up back to the Mcdojo phenomenon, again. God only knows the real damage this has done to authentic TCMA study.

  14. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    actually the clip posted showed TCMA stand up, and where his ground work comes from wasnt identifed
    This is not about any single video clip. It is about the FACT that the major TCMA styles address the ground scenario!

  15. #210
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    - Many years ago, I thought the "ground game' integration was a bad idea (1 gain, 7 loses concern).
    - Few years later, I thought the "ground game" integration might not be a bad idea.
    - Today, I thought the "ground game" integration is an excellent idea.

    Many years from today, if we all come back to this thread, we may all share our opinions differently.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-06-2011 at 01:43 PM.

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