Why doesn't TCMA include ground-grappling?

[Hardwork108]

- Many years ago, I thought the "ground game' integration was a bad idea (1 gain, 7 loses concern).
- Few years later, I thought the "ground game" integration might not be a bad idea.
- Today, I thought the "ground game" integration is an excellent idea.

Many years from today, if we all come back to this thread, we may all share our opinions differently.

I actually believe that the ground game is a good idea too (just like all the other ranges), but first I want to learn it in the way it is taught in my system. Then I armed with that knowledge I may want to take my studies further (jsut like in all the other ranges, as well).

[YouKnowWho]

I actually believe that the ground game is a good idea too (just like all the other ranges), but first I want to learn it in the way it is taught in my system. Then I armed with that knowledge I may want to take my studies further (jsut like in all the other ranges, as well).

Where will certain skills come from is not important. It's the end result that count. Both the TCMA "head lock" and "arm cracking" work very well on the ground too. TCMA and MMA can both benefit from each other (as long as people have open mind).

[Frost]

This is not about any single video clip. It is about the FACT that the major TCMA styles address the ground scenario!

Umm point out where anyone, and i mean anyone, even Ray...... has said they dont, its been pointed out they address the bare basics and thats it, which is probably not enough in this day and age where some fighter now have a desire to take the fight there and real expereince in that realm, which wasnt the case in the last century in china

[Dragonzbane76]

Umm point out where anyone, and i mean anyone, even Ray...... has said they dont, its been pointed out they address the bare basics and thats it, which is probably not enough in this day and age where some fighter now have a desire to take the fight there and real expereince in that realm, which wasnt the case in the last century in china

a vert rudimentary coverage. High school wrestling programs cover more than most TCMA in the ground area.

[Hardwork108]

Umm point out where anyone, and i mean anyone, even Ray...... has said they dont, its been pointed out they address the bare basics and thats it, which is probably not enough in this day and age where some fighter now have a desire to take the fight there and real expereince in that realm, which wasnt the case in the last century in china

If you look in this very forum you will see a thread heading that says so. You can go to the Wing Chun forum and you will see another thread heading saying the same about Wing Chun, and that is not all, because people have denied that the TCMAs had addressed the ground scenario for years here, saying things like it was not culturally accepted, etc, etc.

I have been posting here for years and everytime I have mentioned that my Mainland Chinese lineage has ground fighting in its traditional syllabus, I have gotten the usual "no ground fighting in the TCMAs" line.

It is only now that more and more evidence has come out, including in this forum, courtesy of sifu Mike Patterson, and others, that the MMA advocates have changed their stories to, "yes, the TCMAs address the ground, but BJJ is better", which was not the question. The question was always, wether the TCMAs addressed the ground scenario, those (and their "decades" of exprience") who denied this have been proven to be WRONG!!!!!

[Hardwork108]

a vert rudimentary coverage. High school wrestling programs cover more than most TCMA in the ground area.

And how many TCMAs have you studied in a COMPLETE manner, including their ground methodologies, to come to that conclusion? LOL!

[Hardwork108]

Where will certain skills come from is not important. It's the end result that count. Both the TCMA "head lock" and "arm cracking" work very well on the ground too. TCMA and MMA can both benefit from each other (as long as people have open mind).

I think I need to "qualify" my open mind by first studying my system's approach to the ground scenario. This way I will have less room for confusion. I believe that once I have a all round understanding of my core system, then I will be better qualified to improve certain aspects.

[Frost]

If you look in this very forum you will see a thread heading that says so. You can go to the Wing Chun forum and you will see another thread heading saying the same about Wing Chun, and that is not all, because people have denied that the TCMAs had addressed the ground scenario for years here, saying things like it was not culturally accepted, etc, etc.

I have been posting here for years and everytime I have mentioned that my Mainland Chinese lineage has ground fighting in its traditional syllabus, I have gotten the usual "no ground fighting in the TCMAs" line.

It is only now that more and more evidence has come out, including in this forum, courtesy of sifu Mike Patterson, and others, that the MMA advocates have changed their stories to, "yes, the TCMAs address the ground, but BJJ is better", which was not the question. The question was always, wether the TCMAs addressed the ground scenario, those (and their "decades" of exprience") who denied this have been proven to be WRONG!!!!!

umm this threads title is ground grappling, not ground fighting, no one anywhere has shown TCMA has a ground game anything like BJJ or MMA, a few have mentioned it, no one has shown any of it, or can point to it anywhere,

[ginosifu]

umm this threads title is ground grappling, not ground fighting, no one anywhere has shown TCMA has a ground game anything like BJJ or MMA, a few have mentioned it, no one has shown any of it, or can point to it anywhere,

All styles from from around the world have some type of ground game. All styles may differ because of regional / cultural / ethnic differences. Fights may go to the ground in all countries, however ground fighting may not be popular or the "In Thing To Do" in every area. Many TCMA have roots in miltary style of fighting. Military combat does not encourage fights on the ground, just because of the battlefield and their rules of engagement.

BJJ is a unique version of the japanese style and is relatively new (created within the hundred years or so). Martial sport (BJJ) may be a good way to incease grappling and ground skills and puts them ahead of any TCMA that don't do any type of grappling. However it may not address some of the self defense issues that TCMA give to the student such as multple opponents, weapons etc etc.

can point to it anywhere ginosifu points to himself

I was lucky that my lineage has some ground work (not the same as BJJ and not to the extent of it either). I do know that if I go to the ground, I have confidence that I can atleast do something.

ginosifu

[Frost]

All styles from from around the world have some type of ground game. All styles may differ because of regional / cultural / ethnic differences. Fights may go to the ground in all countries, however ground fighting may not be popular or the "In Thing To Do" in every area. Many TCMA have roots in miltary style of fighting. Military combat does not encourage fights on the ground, just because of the battlefield and their rules of engagement.

BJJ is a unique version of the japanese style and is relatively new (created within the hundred years or so). Martial sport (BJJ) may be a good way to incease grappling and ground skills and puts them ahead of any TCMA that don't do any type of grappling. However it may not address some of the self defense issues that TCMA give to the student such as multple opponents, weapons etc etc.


I was lucky that my lineage has some ground work (not the same as BJJ and not to the extent of it either). I do know that if I go to the ground, I have confidence that I can atleast do something.

ginosifu

i thought you had posted in earlier threads you wrestled in your youth and taught that when you were doing ground work?

[YouKnowWho]

i thought you had posted in earlier threads you wrestled in your youth and taught that when you were doing ground work?

What wrong is that? If a MMA guy is allowed to "cross train", a TCMA guy is also allowed to do so. Many SC guys picked up some ground game from Judo guys in Taiwan too.

[Frost]

What wrong is that? If a MMA guy is allowed to "cross train", a TCMA guy is also allowed to do so. Many SC guys picked up some ground game from Judo guys in Taiwan too.

nothing wrong with it, but he is saying his system includes ground wsork and im simply asking for clarification if that was adopted in from his wrestling or always existed

[Phil Redmond]

. . . . . . . . . .You also have to understand that kung fu is what one makes of it. If you want to evolve a ground game with your kung fu, it is your right to do so. You can take your chinna to the ground if you want to. You can take your kicks to the ground if you want to. Kung fu is like that; it is your discipline-- what are you going to do with it. You do need permission to try to create an effective ground grappling method. It simply has to WORK to be accepted. . . . . . . .mickey

The guys on the Wing Chun forum should read this.

[Dragonzbane76]

And how many TCMAs have you studied in a COMPLETE manner, including their ground methodologies, to come to that conclusion? LOL!

And how many HS programs have u went through to confirm it doesn't?

[ginosifu]

i thought you had posted in earlier threads you wrestled in your youth and taught that when you were doing ground work?

Yes but it is not related to the Ground Stuff I got thru Shaolin Lineage. The Northern Shaolin ground game is a bit different than BJJ or High School Wrestling.

Put that all together with Shuai Chiao and Grappling I learned from my Monkey teacher, Hung Gar and Shaolin Chin Na etc etc. I have been lucky, I fell well rounded.

ginosifu