Kung Fu TV show film REMAKE

[Dim Wit Mak]

Being at or near the top of the ratings of the time plus the popularity of the 70's series proves they had the right formula and actor. The actor's personal life has to be separated from the series. There are many actors who have problems and difficulties of one form or another. It would be best to not be so judgemental of a person's weaknesses...it was not like he was hurting someone else...and he has taken steps to overcome this. The series and the character of KCC as portrayed by DC did just as much as BL to promote the art of KF. Doesn't matter if DC knew KF at the time the series started...it is a show...acting. Most, if not all actors portray something they are not an expert in or even know very much of anything about it. What counts is how they act and portray the character.

I agree that DC was the right choice for the time. He and Bruce Lee did more to promote the martial arts than can be imagined. Even though a Caucasion had the lead role, there was a huge cast of Asian actors. Carradine readily admits that he started out as a dancer who has had to fight many of his own demons over the years. Let's give the guy a break. He has fought hard to improve himself as an individual, and has been a diligent student of martial arts for many years now. How good he is is open to interpretation, but all any of us can do is to put diligent effort into our art, and be the best we can be.

There should be an Asian in the lead role this time. It is a different era with different values and needs.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

But, unless the whole premise of the character is changed ie. half Chinese, half Caucasian...a full Chinese cannot be cast for the part. A person who is half Chinese, 1/2 Caucasian could be. Yeah, it is a new era with some differing values and yet somethings never change.
I hope they do the character and the movie justice. I don't want to pay $20 for the wife and I to see the movie and walk out thinking...boy was that lousy or what.

[firepalm]

Tell you right now don't bother! If it's done the American way (as in US director) it's not going to look any better then the lame a s s current TV incarnation (KF Legend Continues - god what crap that is). It will especially be lame in the action department. Now if they were smart like the Wachowski brothers in the case of the Matrix and let some HK action folk handle the action (not talking Computer graphics) it might look good but my guess is they will have some 'super talented' US guy like Aaron Norris!

Crap crap crap...............

[Dim Wit Mak]

But, unless the whole premise of the character is changed ie. half Chinese, half Caucasian...a full Chinese cannot be cast for the part. A person who is half Chinese, 1/2 Caucasian could be. Yeah, it is a new era with some differing values and yet somethings never change.
I hope they do the character and the movie justice. I don't want to pay $20 for the wife and I to see the movie and walk out thinking...boy was that lousy or what.

I've been known to score pretty low on logic tests, but if a Caucasion can play a half Chinese guy, why can't a Chinese play a half Caucasion guy?

[Hishaam]

I've been known to score pretty low on logic tests, but if a Caucasion can play a half Chinese guy, why can't a Chinese play a half Caucasion guy?

Good one.

I totally agree with Firepalm as far as the people who should be involved in making the movie.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

I've been known to score pretty low on logic tests, but if a Caucasion can play a half Chinese guy, why can't a Chinese play a half Caucasion guy?

DC is not full Caucasian...he is part Native American and so did not look full Caucasian...had the eye look, nose. A full Chinese would look full Chinese, not half Chinese and half Caucasian. Since the part calls for half and half...thats the look that is needed.

As far as the directors/fight choreographers that FP mentions...I don't really care for the ultra violent, special effects laden, contemporary wu shu, close up action (to cover and try to make it look okay, because it really shows nothing).
Give me the American directors/fight choreographers who make a fight scene look like a fight scene without the special effect laden stuff and flying on wires stuff with guys flying 20 feet through the air after getting hit, then smashing against the wall and then the floor and then getting up for more...not what I consider a good martial arts movie, but hey each to their own taste.

[firepalm]

David Carradine, half this half that whatever the case he is 100% lame as they come.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

[QUOTE=firepalm;727925]David Carradine, half this half that whatever the case he is 100% lame as they come.

As stated earlier...it is not about DC, but rather about the character KCC and the series and who the character KCC is and what he stands for. This thread has been after all, about a movie being done from the 70's series Kung Fu in which DC portrayed KCC and not about the actor DC. Whether DC is lame or not is not relevant to the subject of the thread.

[tug]

[QUOTE=Gold Horse Dragon;727930]

David Carradine, half this half that whatever the case he is 100% lame as they come.

As stated earlier...it is not about DC, but rather about the character KCC and the series and who the character KCC is and what he stands for. This thread has been after all, about a movie being done from the 70's series Kung Fu in which DC portrayed KCC and not about the actor DC. Whether DC is lame or not is not relevant to the subject of the thread.

Agreed. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the actor, but everything to do with the character, which DC portrayed with amazing ability at the time.

TuG.

[Li Kao]

Not sure why there is so much DC hate. I think a lot of people have a sour taste from his casting based on the knowledge that the role was supposed to go to Bruce Lee. Obviously, looking back, it is a real shame that the prejudices that existed in American media prevented this from happening. Would the show have been better with Bruce? Most likely ... but I don't hold that against DC, the blame should fall on the network and the producers. When I was teenager, watching the series for the first time and ignorant of the politcal background, it did capture my imagination and I have fond memories of the show and its characters. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I thought DC did a good job with the lead role. Sure, the kung fu could have better, but look at Karate Kid ... Pat Morita was no martial artist, but could you imagine anyone else playing Mr. Miyagi? To me, the appeal of that movie and the kung fu movie was as much in the philosophical as it was in the action. Maybe it was a little "cheesy" at times, but I still like watching the original series and find it to be very unique in comparison to most of the garbage you find on TV these days. I realize that most of the sayings used in the show were adaptations or direct quotes from Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching -- here are some of my favorite lines:

"'Long ago Chuang Chou dreamed he was a butterfly. He was very joyful as a butterfly, well pleased with his lot, his aims fulfilled. He knew nothing of Chou the man. But shortly he awoke and found himself again to be Chuang Chou. And he could not tell whether as Chou he had dreamed he was a butterfly or whether as a butterfly he had dreamed he was Chou.'"

"When ones words are more worthless than silence... One should be silent."

"Perceive the way of nature and no man can harm you. Do not meet a wave head on. Avoid it. You do not have to stop force. It is easier to redirect it. Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced."

"All creatures - the low and the high - are one with nature. No life is insignificant. If we have the wisdom to learn, all may teach us their virtues.... From the crane we learn grace and self-control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon we learn to ride the wind."

"He who knows how to live need not fear death. He can walk without fear of rhino or tiger. He will not be wounded in battle.... In him the rhino can find no place to thrust his horn, the tiger no place to use his claws, and weapons no place to pierce.... Because a man who knows how to live has no place for death to enter."

"The best charioteers do not push ahead. The best fighters do not make displays of anger. The wisest antagonist is he who wins without engaging in battle."

"If a man dwells on the past then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past."

"If while building a house, a carpenter strikes a nail and it proves faulty by bending, does the carpenter lose faith in all nails and stop building his house?"

"I have three treasures which I hold and keep. The first is mercy for from mercy comes courage. The second is frugality from which comes generosity to others. The third is humility for from it comes leadership."

"'We learn to make powerful the force of our bodies. Yet, we are taught to reverence all against whom we may use such force.' - Caine
'When your life is threatened or the innocent life of another, you will be prepared to defend them.' - Master Kan
'Being thus prepared better than others, should I not always stand and fight?' - Caine
'Ignore the insulting tongue. Duck the provoking blow. Run from the assault of the strong.' - Master Kan
'Are these not the actions of a coward?' - Caine
'The wild boar runs from the tiger knowing that each being well armed by nature with deadly strength may kill the other. Running he saves his own life and that of the tiger. This is not cowardice. It is the love of life.'" - Master Kan

"What is cowardice but the body's wisdom of its weakness? What is bravery but the body's wisdom of its strength. The coward and the hero march together within every man. So to call one man 'coward' and another 'brave' merely serves to indicate the possibilities of their achieving the opposite."

"Young Caine, when I was a boy, I fell into a hole in the ground and I was broken and could not climb out. I might have died there but a stranger came along and saved me. He said it was his obligation. That for help he had once received, he must in return help ten others each of whom would then help ten others so that good deeds would spread out like the ripples from a pebble in a pond. I was one of his ten and you became one of mine. And now I pass this obligation on to you."

"Is not the spider also trapped in its own web? Which is truly the prisoner? The fly, which moving freely enters unknown danger? Or the spider, which having spun its web, remains, never knowing the pleasure or the danger of the fly?"

"The undiscerning mind is like the root of a tree - it absorbs equally all that it touches - even the poison that would kill it."

"If a man lives, it is a certainty he will die. Therefore, it is foolish to think of death as if he were a foe to be vanquished. He will come when he will come."

"There is much evil in the world, Grasshopper. It has always been thus. And so our ancestors built this monastery and developed the art of Kung Fu so they might cultivate virtue and protect themselves from harm. But whatever one man possesses another will covet. The Manchu Emperor heard of our prowess. So he sent an army of soldiers to burn the monastery to the ground. Only five escaped. They made their way to Fukien and founded the Tong to overthrow the Manchus and restore the Ming Emperors to the throne. Violence became their tool and combating violence. Thus the Sage Chuang Tzu has said, 'By ethical argument and moral principle, the greatest crimes are shown to have been necessary and in fact a great benefit for mankind.' Two hundred years have passed. The Manchus still sit upon the throne. The Tongs still kill, no longer for noble cause. Yet they are the children of the five Shaolin priests who went to Fukien long ago."

[Li Kao]

More Taoist wisdom from the Kung Fu series:


"It is written, 'Shape clay into a vessel, it is the space within that gives it value. Place doors and windows in a house, it is the opening that brings light within. Set spokes within a wheel, it is the emptiness of the hub that makes them useful.' Therefore be the space at the center. Be nothing and you will have everything to give to others."

"A man may die from a hunger of the body. But whole nations have fallen from that of the spirit. Discipline. Discipline cures."

"'It has been said that a man is three things. What he thinks he is, what others think he is, and what he really is.' - Master Kan
'. . . if a man is wrong about himself and others are wrong about him. . . who is left to say what he really is?'" - Young Caine

"There is a strength in us that can shatter an invincible object with a hand which comes from a strong and disciplined body. There is another strength that allows us to feel the pain of others and give comfort where comfort is needed. This comes from a compassionate heart. True strength must combine both for that is in harmony with the duality of our nature."

"A man truly himself will not enrich his own interests and make a virtue of poverty. He goes his way without depending on others, yet is not arrogant that he needs no other. The greatest man is nobody."

"The sage says, 'That which shrinks must first expand. That which fails must first be strong. That which is cast down, must first be raised. Before receiving there must first be giving."

"Beware of judgments of others. In this imperfect world in which we live, perfection is an illusion. And so the standards by which we seek to measure it are also, themselves, illusions. If perfection is measured by age, grace, color of skin, color of hair, physical or mental prowess, then we are all lacking."

"One cannot always keep a friend when that friend believes that one has wronged him. . . . Each man has the right to choose his enemies and his friends. He may choose unwisely. But the decision is his alone to make. Then he must live with the consequences. And so must his enemies and his friends."

"'Do you sometimes feel love. . . and joy? Do you sometimes feel pride in what you have accomplished?. . . And do you sometimes feel good?. . . But the threads that make up our human nature are two ended. There is no capacity for feeling pride without an equal capacity for feeling shame. One cannot feel joy unless one can feel despair. We have no capacity for good without an equal capacity for evil.' - Master Po
'Must we not fear evil?' - Young Caine
'Shall we fear our own humanity?' - Master Po
'Must we not fight evil?' - Young Caine
'Who can defeat himself? For what is evil but the self seeking to fulfill its own secret needs. All that is necessary is that we face it and choose.'" - Master Po

"Any man can be broken. . . By a strength outside greater than himself or a weakness inside which he cannot understand."

"The Sage says, 'A man is born gentle and weak. At his death he is hard and cold. Green plants are tender and filled with sap. At their death they are withered and dry. Therefore, the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death. The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.'"

"'As we stand with two roads before us, how shall we know whether the right road or the left road will lead us to our destiny?' - Young Caine
'You spoke of chance, Grasshopper, as if such a thing were certain to exist. In the matter you speak of, Destiny, there is no such thing as chance for whichever way we choose, right or left, it must lead to an end. And that end is our destiny.'" - Master Po

[tug]

Not sure why there is so much DC hate. I think a lot of people have a sour taste from his casting based on the knowledge that the role was supposed to go to Bruce Lee. Obviously, looking back, it is a real shame that the prejudices that existed in American media prevented this from happening. Would the show have been better with Bruce? Most likely ... but I don't hold that against DC, the blame should fall on the network and the producers. When I was teenager, watching the series for the first time and ignorant of the politcal background, it did capture my imagination and I have fond memories of the show and its characters. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I thought DC did a good job with the lead role. -- here are some of my favorite lines-

"When ones words are more worthless than silence... One should be silent."

"Perceive the way of nature and no man can harm you. Do not meet a wave head on. Avoid it. You do not have to stop force. It is easier to redirect it. Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced."

"All creatures - the low and the high - are one with nature. No life is insignificant. If we have the wisdom to learn, all may teach us their virtues.... From the crane we learn grace and self-control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon we learn to ride the wind."

"He who knows how to live need not fear death. He can walk without fear of rhino or tiger. He will not be wounded in battle.... In him the rhino can find no place to thrust his horn, the tiger no place to use his claws, and weapons no place to pierce.... Because a man who knows how to live has no place for death to enter."

"The best charioteers do not push ahead. The best fighters do not make displays of anger. The wisest antagonist is he who wins without engaging in battle."

"If a man dwells on the past then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past."

"If while building a house, a carpenter strikes a nail and it proves faulty by bending, does the carpenter lose faith in all nails and stop building his house?"

"I have three treasures which I hold and keep. The first is mercy for from mercy comes courage. The second is frugality from which comes generosity to others. The third is humility for from it comes leadership."

"'We learn to make powerful the force of our bodies. Yet, we are taught to reverence all against whom we may use such force.' - Caine
'When your life is threatened or the innocent life of another, you will be prepared to defend them.' - Master Kan
'Being thus prepared better than others, should I not always stand and fight?' - Caine
'Ignore the insulting tongue. Duck the provoking blow. Run from the assault of the strong.' - Master Kan
'Are these not the actions of a coward?' - Caine
'The wild boar runs from the tiger knowing that each being well armed by nature with deadly strength may kill the other. Running he saves his own life and that of the tiger. This is not cowardice. It is the love of life.'" - Master Kan

"What is cowardice but the body's wisdom of its weakness? What is bravery but the body's wisdom of its strength. The coward and the hero march together within every man. So to call one man 'coward' and another 'brave' merely serves to indicate the possibilities of their achieving the opposite."

"Young Caine, when I was a boy, I fell into a hole in the ground and I was broken and could not climb out. I might have died there but a stranger came along and saved me. He said it was his obligation. That for help he had once received, he must in return help ten others each of whom would then help ten others so that good deeds would spread out like the ripples from a pebble in a pond. I was one of his ten and you became one of mine. And now I pass this obligation on to you."

"Is not the spider also trapped in its own web? Which is truly the prisoner? The fly, which moving freely enters unknown danger? Or the spider, which having spun its web, remains, never knowing the pleasure or the danger of the fly?"

"The undiscerning mind is like the root of a tree - it absorbs equally all that it touches - even the poison that would kill it."

"If a man lives, it is a certainty he will die. Therefore, it is foolish to think of death as if he were a foe to be vanquished. He will come when he will come."

"There is much evil in the world, Grasshopper. It has always been thus. And so our ancestors built this monastery and developed the art of Kung Fu so they might cultivate virtue and protect themselves from harm. But whatever one man possesses another will covet. The Manchu Emperor heard of our prowess. So he sent an army of soldiers to burn the monastery to the ground. Only five escaped. They made their way to Fukien and founded the Tong to overthrow the Manchus and restore the Ming Emperors to the throne. Violence became their tool and combating violence. Thus the Sage Chuang Tzu has said, 'By ethical argument and moral principle, the greatest crimes are shown to have been necessary and in fact a great benefit for mankind.' Two hundred years have passed. The Manchus still sit upon the throne. The Tongs still kill, no longer for noble cause. Yet they are the children of the five Shaolin priests who went to Fukien long ago."

More Taoist wisdom from the Kung Fu series:


"It is written, 'Shape clay into a vessel, it is the space within that gives it value. Place doors and windows in a house, it is the opening that brings light within. Set spokes within a wheel, it is the emptiness of the hub that makes them useful.' Therefore be the space at the center. Be nothing and you will have everything to give to others."

"A man may die from a hunger of the body. But whole nations have fallen from that of the spirit. Discipline. Discipline cures."

"'It has been said that a man is three things. What he thinks he is, what others think he is, and what he really is.' - Master Kan
'. . . if a man is wrong about himself and others are wrong about him. . . who is left to say what he really is?'" - Young Caine

"There is a strength in us that can shatter an invincible object with a hand which comes from a strong and disciplined body. There is another strength that allows us to feel the pain of others and give comfort where comfort is needed. This comes from a compassionate heart. True strength must combine both for that is in harmony with the duality of our nature."

"A man truly himself will not enrich his own interests and make a virtue of poverty. He goes his way without depending on others, yet is not arrogant that he needs no other. The greatest man is nobody."

"The sage says, 'That which shrinks must first expand. That which fails must first be strong. That which is cast down, must first be raised. Before receiving there must first be giving."

"Beware of judgments of others. In this imperfect world in which we live, perfection is an illusion. And so the standards by which we seek to measure it are also, themselves, illusions. If perfection is measured by age, grace, color of skin, color of hair, physical or mental prowess, then we are all lacking."

"One cannot always keep a friend when that friend believes that one has wronged him. . . . Each man has the right to choose his enemies and his friends. He may choose unwisely. But the decision is his alone to make. Then he must live with the consequences. And so must his enemies and his friends."

"'Do you sometimes feel love. . . and joy? Do you sometimes feel pride in what you have accomplished?. . . And do you sometimes feel good?. . . But the threads that make up our human nature are two ended. There is no capacity for feeling pride without an equal capacity for feeling shame. One cannot feel joy unless one can feel despair. We have no capacity for good without an equal capacity for evil.' - Master Po
'Must we not fear evil?' - Young Caine
'Shall we fear our own humanity?' - Master Po
'Must we not fight evil?' - Young Caine
'Who can defeat himself? For what is evil but the self seeking to fulfill its own secret needs. All that is necessary is that we face it and choose.'" - Master Po

"Any man can be broken. . . By a strength outside greater than himself or a weakness inside which he cannot understand."

"The Sage says, 'A man is born gentle and weak. At his death he is hard and cold. Green plants are tender and filled with sap. At their death they are withered and dry. Therefore, the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death. The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.'"

"'As we stand with two roads before us, how shall we know whether the right road or the left road will lead us to our destiny?' - Young Caine
'You spoke of chance, Grasshopper, as if such a thing were certain to exist. In the matter you speak of, Destiny, there is no such thing as chance for whichever way we choose, right or left, it must lead to an end. And that end is our destiny.'" - Master Po

Extremely well said, LK. This is the foundation of what was trying to be put forth as a basis for the director's vision of KF. This is also exactly the idea of such that I took from them back in the day.

Honestly, when things are bad, I always ALWAYS go back to these sentiments.

TuG.

[firepalm]

When I said a 100% lame I meant that also to infer his acting abilities and martial arts abilities in his protrayal of the KCC. And honestly he just got worse, KF Legends Continues and DC's acting & martial arts was utter crap.

It would be correct in saying his personality should not be confused with the role etc... but on a side note Bruce Lee issue has nothing to do with it, what I do find annoying about this guy is he has the audacity to try to come off as legitimite martial artist. Publishing books & videos and such. He is in all honesty quite probably one of the poorest representations of Chinese Kung Fu.

But hey here are some current Eurasians that probably won't get the role Donnie Yen (actually one quarter Caucasian from his fathers' side of SPL & Dragon Tiger Gate), Russell Wong (not my first choice by hey half Caucasian from his mothers side, of Black Sash & Forgotten Son), Mark Dascascos (Haiwan Filipino German of Brotherhood of the Wolf & Only the Strong), I could go on but an American production will most like cast someone like Jason Scott Lee (oh he looks kind of more Westernish and he did do the Dragon Story) and then as the Master someone like James Hong (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0393222/ )

It'll be crap!

[firepalm]

When I said a 100% lame I meant that also to infer his acting abilities and martial arts abilities in his protrayal of the KCC. And honestly he just got worse, KF Legends Continues and DC's acting & martial arts was utter crap.

It would be correct in saying his personality should not be confused with the role etc... but on a side note Bruce Lee issue has nothing to do with it, what I do find annoying about this guy is he has the audacity to try to come off as legitimite martial artist. Publishing books & videos and such. He is in all honesty quite probably one of the poorest representations of Chinese Kung Fu.

But hey here are some current Eurasians that probably won't get the role Donnie Yen (actually one quarter Caucasian from his fathers' side of SPL & Dragon Tiger Gate), Russell Wong (not my first choice by hey half Caucasian from his mothers side, of Black Sash & Forgotten Son), Mark Dascascos (Haiwan Filipino German of Brotherhood of the Wolf & Only the Strong), I could go on but an American production will most like cast someone like Jason Scott Lee (oh he looks kind of more Westernish and he did do the Dragon Story) and then as the Master someone like James Hong (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0393222/ )

It'll be crap!

[Gold Horse Dragon]

LK...nice!

Tug...you are right, it was a spiritually uplifting series and also setting good examples for society. BL did try for the part, but the execs of the show found him to be too forceful and not the peaceful monk they needed for the part. This does not detract from BL...he made some darn good films, but not the peaceful kind.

FP... Do not agree. As I mentioned, the ratings and popularity of the 70's series is in itself the proof that the series had the correct formula and the correct actor. An actor miscast for a part can squash the entire series. The series was great and a large part of that was due DC's portrayal of the character along with great writers, support cast and cinematography. The series also gave huge opportunity to Asian actors who were in every episode. The fight choreography was also by Chinese David Chow and Kam Yuen, Sifu and they also acted in some of the series episodes).

As far as the new series goes...the requirements will or should be half Asian (or similar look) and half Caucasian (doesn't have to be exact...just the look), along with the ability to act the part as it is meant to be. So as long as the actors you mention fit those requirements then they stand a good chance to get the part.

I disagree about DC's acting skills. He is a pretty good actor. Have seen him in Silent Flute aka Circle of Iron where he does a darn good job. He also played well in the KB episode.