My main point

[Taixuquan99]

Iron Eagle(aka Dragonzbane)

A quick response to your statements re: I've made on topic threads and no one responds.

There are probably, at any time, ten to twelve members present at a time who are largely the main determination on what conversation is going to be. ANY of them on forums for more than a few years have accepted that some threads they make are non-starters. For all ten to twelve to contribute nothing for an extended period, and flame wars are all that's going on, is disrespecting everyone, because they're choosing it. If I do it, if you do it, same deal.

I have been super busy the last three weeks, so I've checked the topics and only been able to read a tiny bit. Fortunately, there was nothing to read here. I literally thought, for two weeks, that someone had stickied some really bad threads on the main forum here, there was so little change.

So my point is, if those ten mambers don't discuss kung fu at app level ever for a month, someone should bag on them, period. Your topic didn't catch on, all the other members who can contribute suddenly had the same problem? Probably not.

Agree with it or not, you and I get along well, but when the environment gets caustic, YKW doesn't start good threads, and your entertainment ain't worth all that.

Sanjuro Ronin- In response to "I've never seen this mma guy hostile to tma" I was at Bullshido with you, can't sell that one to me. The guy who called you an iron hand fraud comes to mind. Eat it, Canadian.

Dragonzbane- Same deal, Lucas left over a mma fanboy making ad hominem attacks solely because he didn't like TMA, Eat it, avatar of Gene Ching as channeled through LKFMDC!

Gene Ching- Give up your cheese!

Darid Hammieness- I just wanted to make clear to Iron Eagle my position, if it's liked or not, at this point, I won't continue this conversation on the forum if it's negative.

[Lucas]

It was a moment of supreme weakness that I will forever be shamed for.

[TenTigers]

well, though this isn't about bullshido, really...I pretty much left that site too.
I just got sick of some of the pretentious, holier than though attitude of several of the long standing members.
I especially could not stand the little game that if they didn't like what you said, they harped on how the sentence structure, or grammar was incorrect, rather than the content.
I rarely saw anyone really contribute any worthwhile information, or exchanges. Usually, it was more like, "No, it's not." and that was it.

[David Jamieson]

mmmmm ham.

[bawang]

well, though this isn't about bullshido, really...I pretty much left that site too.
I just got sick of some of the pretentious, holier than though attitude of several of the long standing members.
I especially could not stand the little game that if they didn't like what you said, they harped on how the sentence structure, or grammar was incorrect, rather than the content.
I rarely saw anyone really contribute any worthwhile information, or exchanges. Usually, it was more like, "No, it's not." and that was it.

90% of bullshido guys train taekwondo. in a training poll a few years ago most people there train 1 to 2 hours a week.

[GeneChing]

Gene Ching- Give up your cheese!

NEVER!

[Dragonzbane76]

Iron Eagle(aka Dragonzbane)

???

Dragonzbane- Same deal, Lucas left over a mma fanboy making ad hominem attacks solely because he didn't like TMA, Eat it, avatar of Gene Ching as channeled through LKFMDC!

Ok... um... what do you want me to do about lucas leaving over an mma fanboy? not getting what your trying or wanting here?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

TQ99,

In all honesty man I still don't know where you are going with this. I understand your frustration with the flame wars, I share them too, but sometimes these forums are a plethera of knowledge and other times there a steaming pile of horse sh**it. That's just the truth of it.

Also, don't think I am so egotistical that I expect everyone to post and contribute to my threads, I simply use that as an example that often times people don't want to contribute. The same thing happens when YKW starts threads at times, and his knowledge far exceeds mine.

The point being, sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. I don't want this place to turn into a ******ing contest flame war. But I also respect that Gene and the moderators allow people to discuss freely and do not heavily moderate so that everytime people disagree someone gets banned.

Anyways, my two cents. Take it for what it's worth!

[Hardwork108]

I thought I would bring my response to you from the other thread to this one, just in case you missed it - as it contains a lot of relevant points that were discussed:

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GOOD POST!

I actually agree on certain points, and always have.

The there is still some hope for you yet, my boy!

When I see criticism of kung fu from people who got more contact training elsewhere that fails to note that the lack of contact training means they could not have entrained for combat any kung fu, I cringe.

That is exactly it! Add to that the fact that many only have a passing familiarity with their given style's principles, but think that they understand them, then what you have in front of you are Mcdojo fodder, as far as their TCMA knowledge is concerned.

When this is carried forward to now being an authority, I also cringe, because it is a sort of self-deluded fraud they are carrying out in their argumentation.

Again, you are talking about the typical delusion of grandeur gained by mixing illegitimate Mcdojo kung fu with LEGITIMATE MMA type training. This is actually a very interesting phenomenon, if you ask me.

Further, when I see people talk about how they have the real thing, and yet I see that the difference in the quality of info on all kung fu styles in English is so bad compared to stuff I can and have found in Chinese, and these same people are saying what everyone else needs to do to save their kung fu,

That is why the finding of GENUINE and AUTHENTIC instruction - even if far from easy - can never be overemphasized. I am sure that you have noticed that I go on and on repeating myself as regards the importance of genuine instruction.

I wonder how the ocean of their wisdom has failed to even fill a pamphlet with something a little more meaningful than "mantis uses a hooked hand, here's a form."

Yep, the watching the finger and not seeing the moon, people.....

That said, though the people you argue with often team up with such morons, which also makes me cringe, they are no such morons, but merely *******es for wasting time arguing all month with you. A number of them I am aware of have quite legitimate kung fu experience.

Please point them out to me, because I want to know who they are!

I just don't see why it isn't obvious to all that an absence of technical discussion specifically on kung fu on the most frequented english language kung fu board is going to be noticed and long term considered a red flag to people who might be interested in kung fu.

You wouldn't believe how many actual TCMA practitioners, as well as those interested in the TCMAs have been put off or even intimidated - and have left - by the likes of Dave Ross and others, who would take an innocent question put forward by a new poster and turn it to point of ridicule, because some how the "kung fu-ness" of enquiry did not fit well with their "new world" view of the "functional" MMA they supported or peddled!

That there is a real sense of urgency to turn this around, because the reputation of tcma in China isn't that much better, but since we're facing the problem first, we'd better make our own solutions. These arguments are a distraction from an important task, and they lead nowhere when they preempt technical discussion or preempt people with useful information on usage into arguments.

We would not have these arguments if the MMA crowd, admitted to their limitations as the "improvers" of the TCMAs and just came here to ask polite questions about these methodolgies, to enlighten themselves, instead of come here and more or less, tell us that what we do is "fantasy"!

You are correct in one sense, there is no question that a fighter who has not trained kung fu in a way to entrain the methods, has trained bjj and muay thai in a way to entrain the methods, and fights in a ring, cannot be using much kung fu.

THANK YOU!

I would go further and say that they have NO IDEA!

These people are "drunk" with their "decades" of MA "experience", that in many cases has taken them away from the TCMA methodologies they seek to "improve" (by perhaps adding Tae Kwon Do kicks.....LOL)!

They don't train kung fu; they don't fight kung fu and they cannot discuss kung fu in any depth without tripping on their tongues. That is the sad fact.

So, we have the, "in the ring this, or in the ring that"; then we have, the pseudo scientific types who try to "debunk" every technique or concept that is beyond their limited TCMA understanding.

For example, you show them (and their "decades" of experience) a TCMA fist formation that they are not familiar with, they will turn around and brush it as a "fantasy", because perhaps the grand master who invented the given system, "had a broken finger and could not form a fist properly" (which somehow went unnoticed by his students and disciples; for generations, that is until the art arrived in Smucksville USA, and our pseudo scientific MMA-ist "I have also done 'kung fu' ", friend debunked it!

Show these people an unusual kicking methodology that they do not understand, then you might get, "oh, that doesn't work in 'real life'. The grand master that invented that system, must have had a wooden leg" (that also went unnoticed by his disciples...LOL)!

Then we have the famous, "the hollow fist is an Internal fantasy technique, invented for the lazy, rich upper class Chinese aristocrats". You ask, why do you say that? But, you will never hear, "because we have absolutely no idea about these methodologies, but are too cowardly and insecure to say it, so we act like modern, scientific 'know it alls', to hide our TCMA cluelessness - besides we have done BJJ, you know"......LOL!

It is a given that, since most kung fu schools do not entrain for this, most claiming to be experts because of ring time are not experts in kung fu.

Again, you are correctly referring to the Mcdojo/kwoon phenomenon, which effects over 90 percent of those who "train" TCMAs. Of course, that statistic does not apply to this forum, where everyone and their grandmothers, who train Muay Thai, BJJ, etc., are true TCMA experts, qualified to criticise, judge and IMPROVE not one, but all of the TCMAS under the sun.....LOL!

The goals must be training methods that allow entrainment of kung fu(which means replacing traditions like war and bodyguard work with other methods, which most often means gear and drills and sparring),

Agreed, but some schools already do that, but they are in the minority. Also, genuine kung fu training needs more than just contact sparring. People need to train and understand their forms properly (including the so called "development" forms).

People need to understand the principles, also, and beyond the usual superficial level. How many times have we heard about the famous "being" like water and leacking through. Yet many with the usual ring fighter mentality take this to be solely a way of finding a way through when you are attacking. That is, while they quote the water principle, many times they have no idea of the "not going back" principle!!!

So, yes it is easy to "leak" through when you are on the attack and you find openings, but what about when you are attacked by a strong opponent. "Easy", they say perhaps, " I will go back and draw him into a counter".

So, they see water leaking when it is flooding you, but they forget that water will leak into you when you try to push (attack) it. So, what are the training mindset and skill sets needed to not go back? Good question. The answer will open doors to deeper research into lesser known TCMA methodolgies.

open sharing of many methods, and, from there, increased availability of supporting materials in English that were previously unavailable, plus new works based on the results of more qualified individuals. Which means less making students into student-teachers at precisely the time they need to be advanced students, and less chatter in class and teachers showing off, and more teachers having good students to show off. If you don't have the goal of turning out students who could kick your ass, you won't, and because of the concept of face, kung fu has suffered under the burden of this limitation.

I believe that kung fu training was always about fighting. Of course, other aspects, including the cultural/moral ones were always involved, but at the end of the day the TCMAs are combat arts and many schools train them that way. Those that don't are mainly Mcdojos, because you will probably find that schools that don't train realistically will also not delve deeper into the conditioning and advanced principles.

And thanks to you for your civil post, as well.

[SPJ]

Iron Eagle(aka Dragonzbane)

A quick response to your statements re: I've made on topic threads and no one responds.

at this point, I won't continue this conversation on the forum if it's negative.

I spent more time with my iPad reading news and such.

Watching fox news on cable TV about different republican candidates for 2012.

wall street occupation protest

Libya will have a free election.

GI withdrawing from Iraq.

Google is venturing into Pay TV like cable. It just updated Google TV providing internet contents.

I went to check out iphone 4s on apple store. Waited in a line for a long time and gave up.

started Q & A blog

---

it is all good.

[Hardwork108]

Libya will have a free election.

Wow, you mean Libya beat the US in having her first free election?

[wenshu]

[Frost]

Well if that’s how you feel, you have a few choices:
1) leave
2) only post on the threads you find interesting and ignore all the pettiness
3) or push for the complete banning of us MMA guys

[Hardwork108]

Well if that’s how you feel, you have a few choices:
1) leave
2) only post on the threads you find interesting and ignore all the pettiness
3) or push for the complete banning of us MMA guys

I go for number 3!

[Lucas]

???



Ok... um... what do you want me to do about lucas leaving over an mma fanboy? not getting what your trying or wanting here?

defend my honor with blood