No Ground Fighting in Wing Chun!!!

[wingchunIan]

[QUOTE=Chadderz;1142397]So you cross train? That's fine, but as I said, the Wing Chun system has never had a groundfighting element. That is YOU incorporating it yourself.

Nope, not an ounce of cross training. Merely taking what we do standing up and applying it from the floor. Training with people of other disciplines isn't cross training, its testing. Wing chun is fighting, it can be done from the floor therefore it has groundfighting, goundfighting does not equal grappling. Everything I do on the ground is focused at ending the fight and / or getting back to the feet as quickly as possible and it's all done using the basic toolkit found in the forms, applying the techniques in the same way as most people do (so no hidden grappling moves) just starting in a different position.

[Chadderz]

[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1142399]

So you cross train? That's fine, but as I said, the Wing Chun system has never had a groundfighting element. That is YOU incorporating it yourself.

Nope, not an ounce of cross training. Merely taking what we do standing up and applying it from the floor. Training with people of other disciplines isn't cross training, its testing. Wing chun is fighting, it can be done from the floor therefore it has groundfighting, goundfighting does not equal grappling. Everything I do on the ground is focused at ending the fight and / or getting back to the feet as quickly as possible and it's all done using the basic toolkit found in the forms, applying the techniques in the same way as most people do (so no hidden grappling moves) just starting in a different position.

They do this in Krav Maga, they phrase it "What we do up, we do down."

So you are just "testing" which is cool! Much respect for that, but how do you fair against your grappling counterparts?

Also, I have a video here of Wing Chun type fighting from the ground, although I wish to point out that this Instructor is a JKD Instructor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYllrF8ZeZA

[Jake104]

Isn't that what the Gracies did? Apply standing Judo/ Ju Jistu techniques on the ground? Isn't that what Kosen Judo is? Judo with emphasis on keeping the fight on the ground... Either way in the street if somebody was choking a friend of mine out on the ground . I would with out hesitation punt that persons head like I was kicking the game winning field goal. But hey that's just me

[CFT]

Judo already has ne-waza (ground) techniques. The Gracies just emphasized that part of the judo curriculum.

[Chadderz]

Isn't that what the Gracies did? Apply standing Judo/ Ju Jistu techniques on the ground? Isn't that what Kosen Judo is? Judo with emphasis on keeping the fight on the ground... Either way in the street if somebody was choking a friend of mine out on the ground . I would with out hesitation punt that persons head like I was kicking the game winning field goal. But hey that's just me

Similar, although grappling does transfer more naturally onto the ground. What happened was what you described, however, they did develop it into something much more.

Kinda like the way Kung Fu arts branched of into separate systems of there own.

[wingchunIan]

Isn't that what the Gracies did? Apply standing Judo/ Ju Jistu techniques on the ground? Isn't that what Kosen Judo is? Judo with emphasis on keeping the fight on the ground... Either way in the street if somebody was choking a friend of mine out on the ground . I would with out hesitation punt that persons head like I was kicking the game winning field goal. But hey that's just me

To be fair its what most folks would do, which is why IMO ground fighting should only ever be only a last resort (I would never go to the ground through choice), and should have a focus on short duration to either finish the fight or get back to the feet.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Judo already has ne-waza (ground) techniques. The Gracies just emphasized that part of the judo curriculum.

That is a huge understatement.
The developed ground work to a very high level with focus on SUBMISSION as opposed to the pin AND hey did it dealing with the issues of strikes in a no-holds barred environment.

[Yoshiyahu]

I would love to see that in that action from wrestler actually trying to submit or pin you!!!


[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1142399]

So you cross train? That's fine, but as I said, the Wing Chun system has never had a groundfighting element. That is YOU incorporating it yourself.

Nope, not an ounce of cross training. Merely taking what we do standing up and applying it from the floor. Training with people of other disciplines isn't cross training, its testing. Wing chun is fighting, it can be done from the floor therefore it has groundfighting, goundfighting does not equal grappling. Everything I do on the ground is focused at ending the fight and / or getting back to the feet as quickly as possible and it's all done using the basic toolkit found in the forms, applying the techniques in the same way as most people do (so no hidden grappling moves) just starting in a different position.

[maxattck]

[QUOTE=Chadderz;1142400]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYllrF8ZeZA

I don't even know where to begin with that clip, but in short in was complaint nonsense. None of that crap would work. The person in guard had no posture, was not trying to pass, basically was just there. Those punches would lack any power, and the elbows......who just lays there like that....it so easy to get bicep control from that position. On a side not I remember anderson silva finishing a guy off his back with downward elbows, but silva had him in a triangle he was having problams finishing (his opponent escaped the traped arm):

[YouKnowWho]

It may be possible that your opponent won't be able to respond to your 1st strike. It's impossible that your opponent won't be able to respond to all your strikes.

[Hardwork108]

No, there is no ground fighting in WC. I can't believe this actually needs to be said really. Yes there are different ranges of combat,no, before the year 2000 WC would probably never have been practiced regularly on the ground.

I know this because:

Pure WC practitioners have no idea what positions you end up in when you are on the ground.

I have studied WC, and I've never been on the ground with it.

The world, including this forum, is full of people who have "studied" Wing Chun.

Also, let me remind you that in Mainland China, there are at least 7 other authentic lineages......

[Chadderz]

The world, including this forum, is full of people who have "studied" Wing Chun.

Also, let me remind you that in Mainland China, there are at least 7 other authentic lineages......

That's all good, so please, prove me wrong with some evidence. I'll accept a video off Youtube even, as long as the quality is decent.

Other than that, if you're not adding anything productive to a conversation, then you're not being helpful really.

[Dragonzbane76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYllrF8ZeZA

watch most of the vid. honestly what was shown is not a smart idea when on your back. Yeah, you can strike someone from your back, but it lacks any kind of power. second off someone that has any experience in grappling knows that you need to lock down the arms. If no lock down then lean back for GNP leverage. I understand this is a demo type video but throwing strikes from your back shouldn't be on the top of your priority list. First should be getting out from under that person while negating the GNP from the top.

[Hardwork108]

That's all good, so please, prove me wrong with some evidence. I'll accept a video off Youtube even, as long as the quality is decent.

Other than that, if you're not adding anything productive to a conversation, then you're not being helpful really.

You tube is not the beginning,nor the end of all TCMA validity. Suffice to say that in the Mainland Chinese lineage of Wing Chun that I practice, ground fighting is part of the traditional syllabus. You can believe this or not, but the fact is that this range of combat exists in Wing Chun, idependent of clips of it being available on Youtube.

By the way, the same thing that you said about there not being ground fighting in Wing Chun, has been said about other TCMA styles, and indeed in some cases aALL TCMA styles, by misinformed posters here and I assume elsewhere as well. The people who made these comments are also wrong!

[Chadderz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYllrF8ZeZA

watch most of the vid. honestly what was shown is not a smart idea when on your back. Yeah, you can strike someone from your back, but it lacks any kind of power. second off someone that has any experience in grappling knows that you need to lock down the arms. If no lock down then lean back for GNP leverage. I understand this is a demo type video but throwing strikes from your back shouldn't be on the top of your priority list. First should be getting out from under that person while negating the GNP from the top.

I posted that video in this thread first! Haha, go and look man (:

You tube is not the beginning,nor the end of all TCMA validity. Suffice to say that in the Mainland Chinese lineage of Wing Chun that I practice, ground fighting is part of the traditional syllabus. You can believe this or not, but the fact is that this range of combat exists in Wing Chun, idependent of clips of it being available on Youtube.

By the way, the same thing that you said about there not being ground fighting in Wing Chun, has been said about other TCMA styles, and indeed in some cases aALL TCMA styles, by misinformed posters here and I assume elsewhere as well. The people who made these comments are also wrong!

Right, I'm going to take a persons word as truth... OVER THE INTERNET. Nah, you need proof, it's just one of those things that validates an argument. It's really useful, you should try it ^^