Name of this form?

[Tainan Mantis]

Yep, no problem. I suppose a specific example would always help too, eh?

So, when he does his sembo (at 1:00 and 1:03) for example, he really drops his arm and scoops as if blocking a kick. The way I learned the application it was always more of a tiu sao clear type of motion. MightyB, you have any thoughts?

You mean this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahxhozz7d5M

?

The technique is called Avoiding hardness. But, it looks more like he is trying to meet hardness head on and crash into it.

It is also know as dodging steps. Though, he is not dodging (or avoiding) anything. So, in this case, the move seems to have transformed into something else that it was not originally intended to be.

THis is a good example of why knowing some of the original names of the techniques might influence you or be helpful to you.
I don't think he would do the moves this way if he knew the names.

[YouKnowWho]

(at 1:00 and 1:03) for example,

That move can be used as:

- Both you and your opponent have right side forward.
- You start with a right punch, he blocks with his right arm.
- You use your right hand to control his right wrist, left hand to push his right elbow to his left (not showing in the form).
- You use your right leg to bite into his leading right leg (also not showing in the form).
- When he lifts his right leg up,
- you release your left elbow control hand, use your left arm to circle up his right leg, and
- sweep his back left leg.

It can be a beautiful 5 moves combo.

1. punch,
2. arm jam,
3. shin bite,
4. pick up leading leg,
5. sweep back leg.

The form creator might want to train this combo on both sides. In the form, the "set up (1, 2, 3)" was only for his right side but not for his left side.

Here is also a good example that when you training this as a 5 moves combo, you may want to add the missing parts 2 and 3 back in (The form creator might intend to hide this). Another good reason to train drills instead of forms. The forms sometimes just have too many missing elements in it.

[MightyB]

Yep, no problem. I suppose a specific example would always help too, eh?

So, when he does his sembo (at 1:00 and 1:03) for example, he really drops his arm and scoops as if blocking a kick. The way I learned the application it was always more of a tiu sao clear type of motion. MightyB, you have any thoughts?

Master Brazier articulated my thoughts on that particular sequence quite well...

How I was shown and how this gentleman is demonstrating is similar but different. (Like you, more tiu sau and avoidance)

I've come to accept that that's one of the neat and fascinating things about this style. Everyone's interpretation is a little different even within the same system and there's nothing wrong with that. If anything, learning why someone may demonstrate something differently than you may shed light on new possibilities within a movement.

[yu shan]

Hey Steve, I have the entire Scrima demo which includes Master Shi, plus you and John doing the two-man form to 18-Elders.

[Yao Sing]

The 18 Elders 2-man set is here.

Please disregard the website as I started this before I was hospitalized and haven't gone back to it since. I just needed someplace to park the video clip.

Steve, sent you a PM. Send me your email and I can send you the .avi file if it doesn't download from the link I posted.

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi Yao,
Thanks for posting that, I didnt think I would ever see it again.
K

[Yao Sing]

Hey Kevin, I'll be in the area next week. Mind if I stop by the school? Been out of the loop for a few years due to health issues.

I'll probably be there Tuesday evening with some time to kill. Got a stunt shoot down in Riverview on Wednesday for an Internet ad. Or maybe stop in Wednesday evening depending on the hours I work and whether I ride down there the day before.

Let me know, I don't want to disturb a class or anything.

[Paul T England]

Liked the 2 man version but agree with Alex Tse that the others did not fit with 7 star mantis.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[alextse4]

The 18 Elders 2-man set is here.

Please disregard the website as I started this before I was hospitalized and haven't gone back to it since. I just needed someplace to park the video clip.

Steve, sent you a PM. Send me your email and I can send you the .avi file if it doesn't download from the link I posted.

This is a good 2 men form,but why put a Southern style opening moves infront of a Northern style mantis form?

[Tainan Mantis]

This is a good 2 men form,but why put a Southern style opening moves infront of a Northern style mantis form?

I Alex,
I can answer this question as I heard my shifu explain this myself.
He told us that this particular bow was a part of the Southern Chinese tradition and that no teacher of his that taught mantis had this bow.

But, because of the movies and tv shows, and us living in Taiwan-a southern part of China- he felt that in doing performances if we left off this bow then people might think us impolite.

So, the point was to preserve some sort of humbleness as recognized by the Taiwanese.
In later year, when traveling and performing in places other than Taiwan this bow stayed with us.

As a side note, his first style was Southern kung fu, so it must be a tradition he has had since very young.

[alextse4]

I Alex,
I can answer this question as I heard my shifu explain this myself.
He told us that this particular bow was a part of the Southern Chinese tradition and that no teacher of his that taught mantis had this bow.

But, because of the movies and tv shows, and us living in Taiwan-a southern part of China- he felt that in doing performances if we left off this bow then people might think us impolite.

So, the point was to preserve some sort of humbleness as recognized by the Taiwanese.
In later year, when traveling and performing in places other than Taiwan this bow stayed with us.

As a side note, his first style was Southern kung fu, so it must be a tradition he has had since very young.

I know the first style of your sifu was Southern kung ,that's why his mantis is also full of southern favour.Yes most of the mantis practicioners are now opening like this.

[MeiHuaBR]

To give more on the subject, I actually know Master Lap Wah Ng. The gentleman doing the form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahxhozz7d5M

He's a very nice guy, and teaches several styles in his school. I'll try to enlist them:

- Unified Praying Mantis
- Choy Lee Fut
- Taiji Quan Yang Style

He learned other styles also:

- Wing Tsun
- Eagle Claw
- Shuai Na Dao

His praying mantis background, according with his website:
(warning: in portuguese)

http://nglapwah.webnode.com.br/mestre-wah-historia/

He learned mantis from Master Li Hon Shui (taiji tanglang men) between 1983 to 1985. The name Unified Praying Mantis must come from the will to use his own system of teaching.

I hope this helped a little bit.

[alextse4]

[QUOTE=MeiHuaBR;1153198]To give more on the subject, I actually know Master Lap Wah Ng. The gentleman doing the form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahxhozz7d5M

He learned mantis from Master Li Hon Shui (taiji tanglang men) between 1983 to 1985. The name Unified Praying Mantis must come from the will to use his own system of teaching.

Li Hon Shui is a student of my CK Taichi mantis classmate,but the bung bo here is from 7 stars mantis.Do you know who is his 7 stars mantis sifu?

[MeiHuaBR]

Hello Master Tse,

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but Bung Bo? The taolu in this videos isn't 18 elders?

Anyway, this taolu is very similar with one that Li Wing Kay teaches in Brasil. But there's a lot of diferences. I couldn't find a good example, but here's one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMZsfvtkOI

Maybe he learned the form from Li Wing Kay during the time he studied Eagle Claw and changed some movements to fit his new view. But that is just a guess.

Best wishes.