To Choke, Strangle or Twist?

[goju]

I like using the choke with one forearm pressing against the adams apple and the other fore arm against the back of the neck. Worked well for the cops when they wanted to abuse a criminal

[YouKnowWho]

I still don't see the practicality of causing pain....

It could be just a distraction. The moment that you pay attention on the pain from your skull squeezing, the moment that you may forget about your legs.

[YouKnowWho]

what in your experience causes the most and fastest discomfort and most difficulty for him to counter?

You can almost write a book just about the "head lock" by itself. In order to make your standing up "head lock" work, you will need to fulfill the following requirement:

- Strong head lock.
- Full control of your opponent's leading arm.
- Crash your opponent's body structure/alignment.
- Destroy your opponent's rooting.
- Take advantage on your opponent's resistence.
- Take advantage on your opponent's waist surrounding arm.
- Ability to play with your opponent's leg.

You will need to be good in at least 15 other moves in order to support your "head lock". If you consider the "head lock" as the root of a tree, you will see a big tree that can grow out of that single root.

Focus on crushing the wind pipe?

This may have to do with you and your opponent's height. If you are 5 ft and your opponent is 6ft 6 inch, this move will not be for you. You can squeeze on his:

- temple,
- jaw, or
- neck.

[RenDaHai]

Some good stuff here guys, thanks to all;

To summerise;

It seems the consensus is that cutting off the blood is faster and generally the more successful method. If you can cause a bit of head trauma first especially with blunt force to the back of the head it will speed things along.

The windpipe although painful and damaging is too slow a method to be relied on.

Twisting to cause pain seems like a good idea, but I see now that in a serious situation there is not a good end point to it as breaking the neck is difficult and people respond to pain very differently in an extreme situation. It is still useful for control.

[YouKnowWho]

Twisting to cause pain seems like a good idea ...

It's not the pain. It's the collapse of the body structure/alignment. The head manipulation is very effective skill. You use the strong part of your body to deal with the weak part of your opponent's body. There is one move that you can use to take down any big and strong guy. That move is the "摘盔(Zhai Kui) - remove helmet". When your opponent's head goes, his body will follow.

[Dragonzbane76]

Like i said for the best results a combination or mixture is probably your best bet. A blood air choke works really well. Like a deep guillotine or rnc has a mix on them. A darst choke is kinda a mix. Anaconda, triangle,etc. All use little mixture.

[RenDaHai]

When your opponent's head goes, his body will follow.

True that, if it doesn't he's got big problems.

Definately, Controling the head is essential. I was just thinking about the final submission.

The reason I am interested in Twisting the head is because using any type of lock you are effectively 'locked' yourself in that position. Twisting can be very fast and sudden which then leaves you free. But as people are saying the twist itself is not enough to 'finish' someone so it would have to be followed by something more final.

[Frost]

True that, if it doesn't he's got big problems.

Definately, Controling the head is essential. I was just thinking about the final submission.

The reason I am interested in Twisting the head is because using any type of lock you are effectively 'locked' yourself in that position. Twisting can be very fast and sudden which then leaves you free. But as people are saying the twist itself is not enough to 'finish' someone so it would have to be followed by something more final.

if you want to finish them you have two choices
1) massive head trauma
2) cut of the blood supply to the brain

look at the demos of head twisting or controlling, they normally require two hands on the head and to either be directly infront , or behind your opponent ...realistically who is going to stand there and let you grab the head like that?.....how many times have you actually see it work?

[RenDaHai]

if you want to finish them you have two choices
1) massive head trauma
2) cut of the blood supply to the brain

look at the demos of head twisting or controlling, they normally require two hands on the head and to either be directly infront , or behind your opponent ...realistically who is going to stand there and let you grab the head like that?.....how many times have you actually see it work?

I've grabbed peoples heads and more than once. If they have hair it is very easy to do and surprises most people. A classic combo (which appears a lot in forms) is a quick stab to the nuts with your fingers which generally causes them to pull their groin back and bend their head foreward slightly. Slightly os enough to capture the hair and pull down and then you get the chance to use two hands to move into a twist, a lock or the classic 'Guardian pounds a morter' to the back of the head.

But I think speed is preferable and hitting the back of the head and twisting are fast. I accept that choking the blood is more reliable however...... And potentially more 'friendly'.

[Taixuquan99]

In friendly training, I would never twist a guys neck to injure him. And no, I've never seen someone's neck broken, nor have I seen a cannibal, whatever that proves.

That said, if I were in a confrontation, got one guy by the neck, but had someone closing in, and it was life and death, I would thrash that dude's neck like a frikkin chicken, and I think anyone with any common sense would not want to have that happen to them, regardless of the value of cutting off blood supply, or chokes, or pain compliance.

[YouKnowWho]

how many times have you actually see it work?

If you can create a chance for your "front cut (Judo Osoto Gari)", you can move your left hand behind your opponent's neck, and your right hand on top of his forehead.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/anima.../osotogari.htm

[Drake]

It's not possible to generate the tremendous force necessary to break the neck. Come on, guys... this is a debunked myth.

[Taixuquan99]

It's not possible to generate the tremendous force necessary to break the neck. Come on, guys... this is a debunked myth.

Where is it debunked that you can't hurt the neck in hth?


Frankly, if you can get someone's lower body to get momentum while in a standing guillotine, and you jerk the other way, I'm pretty sure much suckage would ensue, but if you have a source for the debunking, no sweat off of my back.

For the record, I have seen someone break their neck. If your lower body is going one way, and your head the other, it's probably gonna break.

[Golden Arms]

It's not possible to generate the tremendous force necessary to break the neck. Come on, guys... this is a debunked myth.

Oh really?

You should let this guy know:
(his attacker was between 40 and 60 years old, 5 feet 9 inches tall and 175 pounds)

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/02/...stolen-tomato/

You should also probably tell that to several the inmate that broke a guys neck after having his face hit full force with a 50+lb free weight on my buddy's watch as well.

[BakShaolinEC]

I'm like Swayze in roadhouse. I only know how to rip out throats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTYKoNoNXkA