Touch surface or go into detail?

[Taixuquan99]

+1

Same for video too.

But you see on this forum for example, when someone gives away deep knowledge, a couple things frequently happen... some that don't understand just repeat it to impress others, or else there is no response because nobody knows what the heck it means.

My view is, it's no loss if no one gets it, and if someone does, the resultant discussion is mostly useful for the serious practitioners, so I see it as a win-win.

Twenty years ago, people were teaching forms they had never really studied the style of. When the focus is technique level discussion, this kills the ability of such shenanigans, and the people who tend to steal form as such also tend to not be able to attract good training partners so that, when technical discussion is available, they are unable to entrain it with a partner. Further, by being open with technique level discussion, one ends up being more open to examining variations, which gives people room to test ideas out who maybe aren't as confident in their knowledge, but do have some knowledge.

As it stands, technique level discussion would improve the overall level of kung fu, and certainly not diminish the ability of the best.

[Taixuquan99]

hmmm..not so sure about that. In this forum, and in a few others, people have exchanged knowledge, and put some pretty good stuff out there.
There is still a lot of information that is not readily available on internet.
Sometimes, through discussion, gems are found.
I have found that sometimes one paragraph, even a sentence, is worth the price of the whole magazine, or book. Sometimes, all it takes is that little gem, to open up a whole world of possibilities and understanding.

I know what you're saying, but I find that, in english language kung fu manuals, this is more an indictment of the lack of information. The book often isn't worth it, the line is, imo. These manuals are usually very, very light on usage or on analysis beyond a principle level analysis.

[YouKnowWho]

When it comes to the technical stuff, there is so much information out there,

Try to Google a valid counter for "撕(Si) - tearing" and see if you can find any information on it.

[bawang]

google kung fu fighting stance.

[YouKnowWho]

google kung fu fighting stance.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&s...t:429,r:1,s:20

[-N-]

My view is, it's no loss if no one gets it, and if someone does, the resultant discussion is mostly useful for the serious practitioners, so I see it as a win-win.

[...]

As it stands, technique level discussion would improve the overall level of kung fu, and certainly not diminish the ability of the best.

Pretty much agreed for the high level people.

But some high level people have commented to me about being reluctant to share due to low level pretenders using the information to self promote towards newbies and spreading mediocrity.

[Taixuquan99]

Pretty much agreed for the high level people.

But some high level people have commented to me about being reluctant to share due to low level pretenders using the information to self promote towards newbies and spreading mediocrity.

If they are faking technical knowledge that flat out explained to them, they're already mediocre. The person spreading good info isn't responsible for that, in fact, they tried to help.

There's a local guy who tries to pick up how to do fajing from watching others. I tried to explain to him, "Look, it's not about adding something to a move, the move has it already. We don't do the same style, so trying to get my fajing by applying it to your techs won't do it. You've got plenty to work with, it's not about getting new tricks at this point."

He didn't listen, because he wants things he can sell, but that stuff doesn't sell anymore, frankly. More and more, the main thing one can do to attract students long term is apply well, not do forms and make them prettier. He wants skill, but he's mediocre AND he doesn't get that it's not a solo dance where you can worry about losing face, you have to work in a resisting manner in which everyone knows everyone else can be affected by good kung fu/good martial technique applied crisply.

I don't worry about the ones who don't get it and want it easy, I don't worry about hiding things from them or anything, it's enough of my time just to try to always improve at what I do and broaden my understanding of it and entrain at my level of understanding. I won't underperform in order to hide my kung fu, if I'm doing kung fu it's so I can improve, I can't improve if I'm hiding.

A total hack with no understanding will either choose understanding or choose to be a fake, that's not on me or anyone else but them. Since they usually choose not to be in a situation where someone can look better than them, they won't stick around. Because I don't use student instructors, I have no concern over people claiming that I made them teachers, and if someone learns the system from me, does nothing in developing it for teaching, and teaches poorly, I don't have a problem saying "I taught him, whatever he's done with it is his responsibility, if he's better than what I taught, good on him, if worse, c'est la vie."

I'm more concerned about teaching a sociopath. I don't like worrying about what sketchy people will do. And I tire of people who are concerned with winning when they should be concerned with technique, and concerned with face when they should be concerned with winning. A mediocrity doesn't worry me. I guess I'm an odd one.

[mickey]

Greetings,

"Out there" is not limited to the internet.

If I want to learn about tearing, I will try to find someone who knows about it. I would not wait for it to show up in a freakin' magazine. this is the point that I was making.

mickey

[Taixuquan99]

Greetings,

"Out there" is not limited to the internet.

If I want to learn about tearing, I will try to find someone who knows about it. I would not wait for it to show up in a freakin' magazine. this is the point that I was making.

mickey

I understand, but I tend to think a body of experts, without even trying, tends to produce material, in writing, video, etc, that covers major areas of the material.

If I rule out material that is only form, if I rule out material that is a teacher showing off on a student to the class, mostly talking, mostly covering little material and their students mostly showing little ability, if I rule out breaks, this takes away 90% of the material out there. The other 10% tends to be the good stuff, go figure.

Since we're online, since people are making vids, since we're watching them and reading what they have to say, I see nothing wrong with stating that the most qualified who do these things always produce deeper content that is more practical, and utterly fails to hide their qualifications, and that this is the sign of good kung fu, and the lack of decent english language materials on the subject IS NOT a good sign, nor evidence of it being secret as much as it is evidence of a dearth of technique level understanding that you always see in arts that are robust in their current fighting tradition.

Fighting arts with strong training traditions in fighting produce strong written traditions in the modern era, which helps increase the overall quality of the training. We need to embrace this, imo, which requires technique level discussion and analysis. In this realm, one must hand major cudos to members like YKW, Ross, Bawang, Master Killer, etc, and no cudos to the RWilsons, Hardworks, Ray Pinas, who provide no technique level discussion of cma, who disrupt it, or who spend all their time saying what not to do and engaging in stock arguments and insults, but will not or cannot suggest what, on a technique level, they know about their kung fu or they feel is worth working on.

On a discussion board for kung fu, it is impossible to argue that technique level discussion of kung fu is not worth the time for those who wish to pursue it, and most would assume that exactly that level of discussion is common on a board frequented by many kung fu people. The rest are welcome to ignore it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you are gonna talk about something then talk about it, ALL OF IT.
If you are not going to talk about it in its entirety then don't bother.

If you don't know enough about it then shut up and listen.
IF you think you know more then state your case SHOWING that you know more.

If not STFU and listen and learn.

[BakShaolinEC]

i would like to discuss this further, but i dont discuss things for free.

i stopped reading martial arts magazines also. if a teacher doesn't want to reveal everything or keep some stuff out. then so be it. can't tell a person on how to do something.

sure it might confuse or make for a less then complete article, but that's his and the publishers problem.

[Taixuquan99]

If you are gonna talk about something then talk about it, ALL OF IT.
If you are not going to talk about it in its entirety then don't bother.

If you don't know enough about it then shut up and listen.
IF you think you know more then state your case SHOWING that you know more.

If not STFU and listen and learn.

Sometimes, room must be made for a conversation, which requires members willing to fight for good contributions AND staff willing to get disruptive elements out of the way without crying about it.

For example, on the member side, this sub-forum had ridiculous excuses for conversation for a solid month, suddenly there's more focused conversation due to the members self correcting. Watch closely, this will make the purposefully disruptive members more obvious.

[Taixuquan99]

i would like to discuss this further, but i dont discuss things for free.

i stopped reading martial arts magazines also. if a teacher doesn't want to reveal everything or keep some stuff out. then so be it. can't tell a person on how to do something.

sure it might confuse or make for a less then complete article, but that's his and the publishers problem.

Our not buying it is the publisher's problem as well.

[Taixuquan99]

To reiterate, a bjj black belt with business savvy pulls every bit as much money in as a cma teacher with business savvy, despite the fact that the entirety of bjj is available in print. Open technique level analysis and discussion is common online and in print for bjj, muay thai, boxing, wrestling, judo, etc. This has been a boon to those arts, and mainly hurts the teachers teaching "mma" who do not have a real familiarity with mma, since those styles play so heavily into many people's mma.

[BakShaolinEC]

Our not buying it is the publisher's problem as well.

exactly I didn't need to write about it for it to be understood.

maybe some of the "masters/sifus" that write articles think some basics are understood.