This is not WC

[YouKnowWho]

Many people love to say, "This is not WC ...".

I once made a statement, "In SC, the way that you apply a hook punch is to use your forearm to hit on the back of your opponent's head ..." Someone immediately said, "In our mantis system, we do that too." People just love to be included and hate to be left out.

I have found the following statements in this forum:

- My Baji also has that strike.
- My Bagua also has that throw.
- My longfist also has that kick.
- My mantis also has that lock.
- ...

Does this mean that style such as Baji, Bagua, longfist, mantis, ... want to belong to the TCMA main stream. Only WC doesn't want to belong to the TCMA main stream?

Instead of join in the discussion of "Why doesn't TCMA include ground-grappling?", WC guys prefer to have their own "No Ground Fighting in Wing Chun!!!".

What's your opinion on this?

[Howard]

What's your opinion on this?

WC is boring.

[RenDaHai]

Hehe,

That's a keen observation.

Wing Chun is really strange because it is practised far more in the west than it is in China.

If you analyse many Kung Fu styles like Mantis, Shaolin, Taiji, Xingyi, Baji, ZhaQuan, PaoQuan, Hua quan etc. You'll find they contain largely the same techniques used in a similar way even with the same technique name. Even in the south a lot of the same techniques are used.

But Wing Chun is different. Why? I believe because its recent evolution has occured outside of China, largely away from the community of Wushu. Even in Hong Kong it is somewhat isolated, but it is practised so much in the west that it has evolved into a new style and people who practice it are so closed minded about its 'correct' use of technique. Also because the vast majority has been passed down through 1 lineage.

[EarthDragon]

As the old saying goes you only have 2 arm 2 leg, there are only so many things you can do with them and then they must repeat, this is also true of TCMA, JMA any MA.

To think that a certain style doesnt do these same repeating is just ludicrous. It seems perhaps WC wants to be the upper crust and not mingle witht he common folk LOL

[Vajramusti]

Many people love to say, "This is not WC ...".
((So what?))


Does this mean that style such as Baji, Bagua, longfist, mantis, ... want to belong to the TCMA main stream. Only WC doesn't want to belong to the TCMA main stream?

((Belong? To what? Who is defining TCMA mainstream... You??))

Instead of join in the discussion of "Why doesn't TCMA include ground-grappling?", WC guys prefer to have their own "No Ground Fighting in Wing Chun!!!".
((You are selecting some folks' comment to generalize about everyone or the art- a fallacy!!))

What's your opinion on this?

((In addition to bracketed comments above--
1.TCMA has may styles, concepts and diversities and differences in concepts, stances, motions, techniques, strategies and -the more one generalizes the more superficial analysis can result and already has.

2.Sure wing chun was mainly made well known by the work of Ip man. It has spread badly and unevenly.Ip man was selective about who he taught well. But many saw enough strength in wing chun they became attached to it and began to teach it without learning the art well. The quality of wing chun has been submerged by it's quantity and careless dilution... and opportunistic marketing oriented variations showing up from time to time. Much discussion of wing chun on this forum and some others are basically by mma wannbees, and many quasi-mma folks and some dogmatists.

3. Yes SC survived via Deng and others in Taiwan, yes, good taiji survived in Chen village-- but Mao's revolution and his opinion on old kung fu being feudal, suppression of old kung fu, , creation of modern wushu and the work of the red guards devastated much of TCMA..many surviviors of wc clf, southern mantis etc ended up in Hong Kong.

4. Post Mao- dvelopment of sanda is an attempt to make mainland kung fu serious- but the humpty dumpty of old TCMA is not quite restored after Mao, the cultural revolution and the red guards..

5. It's a complex story- everyone has "opinions"- but asking for a opinions is not analysis..
and bashing wing chun in this thread so far have elements of cheap shots. Good wing chun instruction here and there in Hong Kong, parts of US. some in Oz, some in Europe still survives..
the good teachers don't rattle on and on in forums. some of the most frequent posters on wing chun appear to know very little wing chun .

6. wing chun is not alone in having quality control problems.You have to search for good things anyway in any activity. Opinions are dime a dozen.

joy chaudhuri

[Robinhood]

Like the post above, two arms two legs, nothing new, styles are styles are just training aids, the better you get, the more efficient your movements, the less you move, it looks different depending on your level, so as you progress you should not look like the beginner, so at different levels all movements will look different depending on the level of the person executing the interaction.

Most people only comparing beginning learning movement.

[Howard]

((In addition to bracketed comments above--

3. Yes SC survived via Deng and others in Taiwan, yes, good taiji survived in Chen village-- but Mao's revolution and his opinion on old kung fu being feudal, suppression of old kung fu, , creation of modern wushu and the work of the red guards devastated much of TCMA..many surviviors of wc clf, southern mantis etc ended up in Hong Kong.

4. Post Mao- dvelopment of sanda is an attempt to make mainland kung fu serious- but the humpty dumpty of old TCMA is not quite restored after Mao, the cultural revolution ...

Oh please kindly do not be so blind sided regarding China , it is a big place with a deep history with embedded culture, the short time of the cultural revolution did not do as much damage as proclaimed by the story tellers outside who had to claim their knowledge greater than where their arts originate !

A more real issue in China and beyond is modern age lack of purpose, with focus on ego competitive and reward factors that skewed the interests of potential practioners towards the showmanship or competitive combat sport angle, same impact happened to judo, tkd, karate, wrestling, mma and all the rest....which have become focused subsets of a root tradition rather than evolutionary improvement.

Further the movies of HK and the make believe of the unqualified outside have made just as bad an impact on the quality of TCMA, which I do agree is an issue across most styles not just WC.

[Dragonzbane76]

Instead of join in the discussion of "Why doesn't TCMA include ground-grappling?", WC guys prefer to have their own "No Ground Fighting in Wing Chun!!!".

maybe they just like arguing with themselves. they never seem to have "enough" politics in the WC branch.

[Vajramusti]

maybe they just like arguing with themselves. they never seem to have "enough" politics in the WC branch.

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Much truth to that.

joy chaudhuri

[RWilson]

Joy?

You have no real skills outside of chi Sao...but your tone is that of an expert. They call that a paradox

[bawang]

wing chun is made up bullsh1t.

[YouKnowWho]

6. wing chun is not alone in having quality control problems.

Why the "quality control" should be any issue?

Most WC guys in US come from Ip man system (myself included). This is the same situation as most SC guys in US come from GM Chang. Old Chinese saying said, "Dragon has 9 sons, they all look different. One of it's sons is a turtle." To have some difference is a good thing.

- One of my senior SC brothers had changed "hip throw" into "waist lift".
- Another senior SC brothers of mine had integrated Judo ground game into SC.

There were not a single SC guy in US ever criticized their changing and integration. If a WC guy changes Tan Shou into upper cut, it will be a good thing. Other WC brothers should all support him instead of trying to have "quality control". A WC brother should support another WC brother. That's all I'm trying to say here.

The only way that you can achieve "quality control" is through the association certificate. Again, if people don't care about your certificate, there will be nothing that you can do about it.

[Vajramusti]

Joy?

You have no real skills outside of chi Sao...but your tone is that of an expert. They call that a paradox

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That is being personal- no paradox- you don;t know me.

[Robinhood]

If the movement is in the WC sets, its WC. The movement does not have to be a single simple move, but can be a combination of small pieces from the sets in any order you want. Just like letters are used from the alphabet.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1142800]Many people love to say, "This is not WC ...".

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Take that up with whoever you are quoting. Why troll here on a general forum. As far as I can tell
you have dabbled a bit in wing chun.

joy chaudhuri