Connect and disconnect body frame

[EarthDragon]

when about to be trown, when you adhere ... to yourt thrower, it is nearly impossible to become disattached if you are sticking, this goes along the same line and principles as collasping

[YouKnowWho]

Or how bout hiding your frame so that your opponent can't find it? This is the essence of Taiji.

EO

If your opponent

- pushes you, you can yield, spin, and still hide your frame.
- pulls you, it's impossible to hide your frame. You only have 2 choices, resist against him, or follow him. In either case, your frame cannot be hidden.

The essence of Taiji just won't work well under a simple "pulling".

[Eric Olson]

If your opponent

- pushes you, you can yield, spin, and still hide your frame.
- pulls you, it's impossible to hide your frame. You only have 2 choices, resist against him, or follow him. In either case, your frame cannot be hidden.

The essence of Taiji just won't work well under a simple "pulling".

Why can't you follow and still hide your frame?

EO

[Eric Olson]

Well, you can throw him backwards is his momentum is going backwards
What John means about the "collapsing frame" is to "fall" before you get thrown.
Basically apply "dead weight" at the correct time, Mifune was reknown for that.

Yeah, that's basically what I said in a previous thread.

EO

[RWilson]

In TCMA, to connect our body frame as one unit, transfer energy from our foot all the way to our finger tips is very important. To "disconnect body frame" at the right moment is also very important.

Here is an example to disconnect your frame to dodge flying objets.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...Q9QEwAQ&dur=84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FQEPWkDJyY

When your opponent tries to throw you, if you can collapse your body frame like spaghetti, he will not be able to throw you.

When you sweep your opponent's leg, you want to disconnect your upper body and lower body. You only use your lower body to sweep. This way, if your opponent escapes out of your sweep, your sweep won't affect your own balance.

Could you share your idea about "connect body frame" in your system? Can you come up other usages for "disconnect body frame"?

No offense but you have been living in hippy philosophical land for too long. These "tcma" principles you keep writing about are the gold standard for all combat styles. Tcma talk about principles too much and do not train them enough. That is orbs my why they are so well written by the Chinese because they were writing and not actually training at certain points in the history. I get it. You think his is advanced shiet but it is really just mental masturbation.

To be a good wrestler you need to be strong for your body weight(actually to be good at any martial art this is true). If you are strong relative to your body weight you will be able to better do all the things you are talking about. Talking/thinking about principles is not as effective as actually doing them.

[Indrafist]

No offense but you have been living in hippy philosophical land for too long. These "tcma" principles you keep writing about are the gold standard for all combat styles. Tcma talk about principles too much and do not train them enough. That is orbs my why they are so well written by the Chinese because they were writing and not actually training at certain points in the history. I get it. You think his is advanced shiet but it is really just mental masturbation.

To be a good wrestler you need to be strong for your body weight(actually to be good at any martial art this is true). If you are strong relative to your body weight you will be able to better do all the things you are talking about. Talking/thinking about principles is not as effective as actually doing them.

And even then the 'doing' of them needs to relevant and not just theory-laden. There's plenty of examples of 'applied' principles in TCMA that are only applied compliantly, within set exchanges of structure. So, the said principles then become over-valued ideas. MMA has been a reverse-engineered process of distilling principles back from over-valued ideas and theory-laden philosophies - and what you have left is a tested chassis. It's not the only way to do this, any truly 'real' RBSD approach will acheive this, with albeit a different emphasis. But it's also true that individual TCMA practitioners are free to develop what they have as 'abstraction' on towards either a combat sports or RBSD application. It's been said on this forum dozens of times, it's down to individuals, always has been always will be.

[YouKnowWho]

Why can't you follow and still hide your frame?

EO

Someone asked the same question on another forum. Let me just cut and paste it here.

Q:

If your opponent pulls, your center must be faster to get in front of the pull,

A:

Unfortunately sometime your opponent can borrow your force and lead you into the emptiness.

- I pull.
- You borrow my pull and push,
- I borrow your push and pull harder,
- You borrow my pull and push harder,
- I ...

It depends on who has better Tinjin. The advantage that I have is I can spin but you can't.

Q:

or I can blow directly into your center when you try to spin me,

A:

Not sure how you will be able to do that in the following situation. Please notice that your opponent is behind you. In order for you to move into his center, you have to turn around first. When you try to turn around, your opponent can borrow your turning and then lead you into the "emptiness".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swiMIO62cgQ

Q:

a simple step with the led leg towards you before you turn the corner, ...

A:

You have just given your opponent your leading leg that he is waiting for. Whoever starts the "pull" will always be one step ahead of his opponent (if he knows what he is doing). The reason is simple. He knows what he will do next but you don't. You are playing his game and not yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGR9LtfR5cs

[Robinhood]

No offense but you have been living in hippy philosophical land for too long. These "tcma" principles you keep writing about are the gold standard for all combat styles. Tcma talk about principles too much and do not train them enough. That is orbs my why they are so well written by the Chinese because they were writing and not actually training at certain points in the history. I get it. You think his is advanced shiet but it is really just mental masturbation.

To be a good wrestler you need to be strong for your body weight(actually to be good at any martial art this is true). If you are strong relative to your body weight you will be able to better do all the things you are talking about. Talking/thinking about principles is not as effective as actually doing them.

You need strength to strike, not to counter. The more skill you have the less strength you need to counter your opponent.

But for wrestling body weight and strength are probably more of a factor, that's why a little guy should not wrestle a big guy.

A high level MA does not use hardly any strength to protect ones self, look at that judo guy, was he using strength ?
If you don't have skill you will compensate for that by using strength to try to force a movement that only only works because you are stronger than your opponent, that is just stronger over powering the weaker, and is not really a MA.

[YouKnowWho]

No offense but you have been living in hippy philosophical land for too long.

I may be the last person on earth who lives in the hippy philosophical land.

[Robinhood]

If your opponent

- pushes you, you can yield, spin, and still hide your frame.
- pulls you, it's impossible to hide your frame. You only have 2 choices, resist against him, or follow him. In either case, your frame cannot be hidden.

The essence of Taiji just won't work well under a simple "pulling".

There are more choices, if that is all you think can be done, you have to find some more guys to play with.

Also you don't need to hide your frame, and still not let you use it, unless you are doing body level, then you will need to hide it.

[RWilson]

You need strength to strike, not to counter. The more skill you have the less strength you need to counter your opponent.

But for wrestling body weight and strength are probably more of a factor, that's why a little guy should not wrestle a big guy.

A high level MA does not use hardly any strength to protect ones self, look at that judo guy, was he using strength ?
If you don't have skill you will compensate for that by using strength to try to force a movement that only only works because you are stronger than your opponent, that is just stronger over powering the weaker, and is not really a MA.

That judo guy is probably strong as hell. You cannot have the strength of a monk that reads and prays all day. You need real strength and power combined with your skill. Power overcomes skill. Power AND skill are unstoppable.

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTumjmL-76c

[Robinhood]

That judo guy is probably strong as hell. You cannot have the strength of a monk that reads and prays all day. You need real strength and power combined with your skill. Power overcomes skill. Power AND skill are unstoppable.

I was talking about the little old man that was half the size of the guys he was playing with, I don't think he was using strength, at least not in the video I saw.

I think the saying is " skill over comes power", maybe your definition of skill is different from mine.

Maybe we need a thread on the definition of skill.

[YouKnowWho]

There are more choices, if that is all you think can be done, you have to find some more guys to play with.

You may have more than 2 choices if your opponent uses "circular" pull. If your opponent uses "linear" pull, what will be your 3rd choice?

[Robinhood]

You may have more than 2 choices if your opponent uses "circular" pull. If your opponent uses "linear" pull, what will be your 3rd choice?

Your still talking about applying your movements at body level, if you move past the body level there are infinite choices.

Also if you are applying at body level, strength does make a big difference.