Define Sticking

[Phil Redmond]

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Phil- you area a better person than me in conversing with the two PB guys. I find their repetitious posts way past boring. Mostly, I just ignore them.

I hear you Joy. When your cup is full... well you know the rest.

[WC1277]

I find it amusing that Graham and Kevin assume that sticking is seeking out arms to touch and control, which is so far from the truth. There are schools that promote that and yes, is not correct, but to assume that's what sticking is in application shows the lack of exposure to legitimate WC teaching. It's like a Protestant saying all Catholics worship the Pope because he's the head of that religion. True for some, but wrong for many.

[k gledhill]

Oh well.......never mind.

[kung fu fighter]

sticking is a by-product of good structure not a seeking

I agree with this 100%, and having personally touched hands with Philip Bayer student Kevin Gledhill, I can tell you he definately has structure, they just don't stick continously, they prefer to clear and hit as oppose to prolong sticking.

[Hardwork108]

I sense a little hint of condescension in your statement. With regards to the learning curve I can see a major cross lineage WC rule broken in lots of the chi sau video clips you've posted. And that is Mo Yuk Jang (immovable elbow). So much for being higher on the learning curve in that regard.

You think that is bad, then ask the PB guys about their take as regards the elbow STRIKE methodologies! lol!

[Phil Redmond]

You think that is bad, then ask the PB guys about their take as regards the elbow STRIKE methodologies! lol!

Nah, that's ok I'll leave that one alone. We are friends here I hope.

[Graham H]

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I find their repetitious posts way past boring. Mostly, I just ignore them.

That's a good thing.

GH

[GlennR]

That's a good thing.

GH

Whats a good thing is that there is different takes on WC in my opinion.

The ONLY measuring stick here is effectiveness.... fight results. Period

If you dont beleive in knees/elbows, fine, but show the world you can fight without them.
If you think "sticking: is a big part of your WC , great, just be able to utilise it when you fight.

If you are so hung up on someone elses WC being different to yours... go see a counsellor.
Its all still WC

To highlight how childish this whole argument is, the great Joe Frazier died this week.
I wont rehash his story but will bring up one thing. Look at any of the 3 fights he had with Ali and notice the striking difference between their styles.
Frazier low, bobbing weaving and predominantly hooking. Ali upright jabbing, crossing... throwing uppercuts against Joes low stance.
Very very different approaches BUT still boxers

They just have a different approach.

So why dont we all agree that there is, as the two great men ive just mentioned would agree, different approaches which often give amazingly similar outcomes.

GlennR

[Phil Redmond]

Whats a good thing is that there is different takes on WC in my opinion.

The ONLY measuring stick here is effectiveness.... fight results. Period

If you dont beleive in knees/elbows, fine, but show the world you can fight without them.
If you think "sticking: is a big part of your WC , great, just be able to utilise it when you fight.

If you are so hung up on someone elses WC being different to yours... go see a counsellor.
Its all still WC

To highlight how childish this whole argument is, the great Joe Frazier died this week.
I wont rehash his story but will bring up one thing. Look at any of the 3 fights he had with Ali and notice the striking difference between their styles.
Frazier low, bobbing weaving and predominantly hooking. Ali upright jabbing, crossing... throwing uppercuts against Joes low stance.
Very very different approaches BUT still boxers

They just have a different approach.

So why dont we all agree that there is, as the two great men ive just mentioned would agree, different approaches which often give amazingly similar outcomes.

GlennR

I couldn't have said that better. Instead of living in our little WC bubbles we should be open to other possibilities. I do TWC but that doesn't mean other WC lineages are not good. If fact I know guys outside my lineage that make their WC work for real and that's all that matters. Don't live in a box....

[k gledhill]

Whats a good thing is that there is different takes on WC in my opinion.

The ONLY measuring stick here is effectiveness.... fight results. Period

If you dont beleive in knees/elbows, fine, but show the world you can fight without them.
If you think "sticking: is a big part of your WC , great, just be able to utilise it when you fight.

If you are so hung up on someone elses WC being different to yours... go see a counsellor.
Its all still WC

To highlight how childish this whole argument is, the great Joe Frazier died this week.
I wont rehash his story but will bring up one thing. Look at any of the 3 fights he had with Ali and notice the striking difference between their styles.
Frazier low, bobbing weaving and predominantly hooking. Ali upright jabbing, crossing... throwing uppercuts against Joes low stance.
Very very different approaches BUT still boxers

They just have a different approach.

So why dont we all agree that there is, as the two great men ive just mentioned would agree, different approaches which often give amazingly similar outcomes.

GlennR

comparing Joe to Ali, is like a caveman with a club and a surgeon with scalpel

just saying I would work on the scalpel skills if I wasnt built like a wall.

[GlennR]

I couldn't have said that better. Instead of living in our little WC bubbles we should be open to other possibilities. I do TWC but that doesn't mean other WC lineages are not good. If fact I know guys outside my lineage that make their WC work for real and that's all that matters. Don't live in a box....

What ive noticed over the years Phil is that different lineages enphasise different things.

The TWC guys ive trained with seem to prefer a slightly longer range with more side stepping/ flanking... the WSL guys are more up the middle... the TST guys like to stick and control more... some kick, some hardly kick...its horse for courses and each can fit if matched with the appropriate exponent.

Matching body types and personalaties helps IMO. Using Ali/Frasier again.. those guys were perfectly matched in regards to their personal attributes and adopted styles.

So if youre in mid sentence bagging out another lineage that didnt work for you.. maybe, just maybe, it was you that was you that was the problem and not the style.

GlennR

[GlennR]

comparing Joe to Ali, is like a caveman with a club and a surgeon with scalpel

just saying I would work on the scalpel skills if I wasnt built like a wall.

Me thinks you need a better understanding of boxing to regard Frazier as a caveman.

After all, the caveman belted the surgeon 1st time round

[Hardwork108]

What ive noticed over the years Phil is that different lineages enphasise different things.

The TWC guys ive trained with seem to prefer a slightly longer range with more side stepping/ flanking... the WSL guys are more up the middle... the TST guys like to stick and control more... some kick, some hardly kick...its horse for courses and each can fit if matched with the appropriate exponent.

Matching body types and personalaties helps IMO. Using Ali/Frasier again.. those guys were perfectly matched in regards to their personal attributes and adopted styles.

So if youre in mid sentence bagging out another lineage that didnt work for you.. maybe, just maybe, it was you that was you that was the problem and not the style.

GlennR

Ok, this is a general statement, but the lineage I practice uses all the above elements, depending on the necessity of a given situation.

[Hardwork108]

Nah, that's ok I'll leave that one alone. We are friends here I hope.

Friends, but unfortunately sometimes with agendas, it seems.....

[k gledhill]

Me thinks you need a better understanding of boxing to regard Frazier as a caveman.

After all, the caveman belted the surgeon 1st time round

theres a lot to be said for speaking quietly and carrying a big club too