Which of these cheapens the reputation of martial arts more?

[Northwind]

I'd have to add...those that consider any association of the Chinese word "Qi" to mean "mystical" anything...

[IronFist]

How does northern mantis train you better than sport muay Thai for combat? Do you even know? What is the exact methodology the non-sport arts use?

Dropping truth bombs.

According to half the people in this thread, the FIGHTING ART of [insert TCMA style of your choice] makes you a better fighter than the SPORT of Muay Thai or BJJ.

Funny how all those professional fighters use Muay Thai and BJJ. Don't those silly guys know some TKD guy is just waiting to kick their ass? Some hardcore FIGHTING ART kungfu/karate/whatever guy is going to come destroy them with their FIGHTING ART.

Oh wait, they already tried that. See the beginning of UFC when TCMA won every time (surely you remember when Gracie got KOed by the Karate guy with only 6 months of experience in his FIGHTING ART of Karate, silly Gracie with his years of study in the SPORT of BJJ thought he had a chance) and eventually TCMA was ruled TOO DEADLY FOR THE RING and so all of the fighters had to switch over to the SPORT Muay Thai and BJJ techniques which are infinitely less effective and LESS DEADLY than the FIGHTING ART techniques of TCMA.

FIGHTING arts > SPORT arts

[Northwind]

FIGHTING arts > SPORT arts

Egotistic and willfully ignorant people > Folks who dont care about UFC, rings etc. and simply defend themselves and those they care for

[crazy-eyed-emote-I-dont-know-how-to-re-create]

[RWilson]

Egotistic and willfully ignorant people > Folks who dont care about UFC, rings etc. and simply defend themselves and those they care for

[crazy-eyed-emote-I-dont-know-how-to-re-create]

This was not meant to be an mma vs tcma discussion when I started it. Drake ignorantly said that judo was a sport and never meant for combat. He said the skills you learn are not useful in a fight. He knows because hen"studied" judo for who knows how long.

So I looked at arts that were, by textbook definition, combat arts. All Kung fu is supposed to be combat oriented. My question was and still is: how do these styles made for combat train you better for fighting than sport styles? What is the exact way?

Drake mentioned banging the forearms to make them harder. Is this to help crush the person to death if needed?

[IronFist]

Drake mentioned banging the forearms to make them harder. Is this to help crush the person to death if needed?

I always assumed that was so if you incidentally got hit in the forearms, it wouldn't hurt so bad that it caused you to stop for a moment and go "ow!" which would interfere with your flow and possibly cause you to lose the fight.

I don't think anyone goes around hitting people with their inner forearms.

I think it can also help with "bridging," which seems to be commonplace in many TCMA systems, where there is a lot of forearm contact. Not trying to open a can of worms here but I haven't really seen much "bridging" in real fighting as bridging generally requires leaving the arms at least somewhat extended which, much like "reaching" for punches, is usually thought to be a no-no in fighting.

[Northwind]

So I see that we do still have folks trying to do the whole tcma is useless thing. OMG when will you people grow up?

[RWilson]

in terms of the longfist vs judo/boxing i think the main difference (provided you've found a school that trains traditional long fist and not just some modern wushu version of longfist) then longfist already incorporates throwing and striking into a comprehensive progressive study of fighting.

where as judo is missing the majority of the striking and boxing is missing not only the throws/takedown but also the legs. (not saying you need kicking at all, but it doesnt hurt)

i personally believe that at the end of the day, you're going to be better off if you have an understanding of striking and a wrestling in terms of personal self defense.

of course you can always just learn judo and boxing and be just as well off

i went to judo to really develop a throwing game and understanding. and more importantly...takedown defense

You said longest has all of these things giving it a leg up on judo. But how does longfist train these strikes/throws differently than sport arts?

If a guy who studied "real" longfist sparred with a guy who did kickboxing/judo would the longfist guy fair well?

What is the "real" longfist training, how is it different than sport training, and will it produce better skills?

I find it amusing that NOBODY can answer this question.

[RWilson]

I always assumed that was so if you incidentally got hit in the forearms, it wouldn't hurt so bad that it caused you to stop for a moment and go "ow!" which would interfere with your flow and possibly cause you to lose the fight.

I don't think anyone goes around hitting people with their inner forearms.

I think it can also help with "bridging," which seems to be commonplace in many TCMA systems, where there is a lot of forearm contact. Not trying to open a can of worms here but I haven't really seen much "bridging" in real fighting as bridging generally requires leaving the arms at least somewhat extended which, much like "reaching" for punches, is usually thought to be a no-no in fighting.

I was being sarcastic since Drake put it as anexample of tcma conditiOning. Tcma's might want to put more time into sprints so they can run away in case gong training fails.

[RWilson]

I also find it amusing how Dale runs to Gene for a possible banning because he cannot string together two sentences to make a coherent argument. Dale, all you can do is become belligerent and name call. You have no technical knowledge outside of your little ba gua cult.

Ironfist brought up useless training and then training that harder. Ba gua circle walking is useless for fighting and you do it with a weighted vest on. Wonderful. What is next? Doing qi gong in the cold naked to make you stronger in case you get attacked in the cold?

[David Jamieson]

i think its both. my judo teacher even says if you want just self defense go learn boxing or something like that. now personal experience tells me that the skill set you aquire in judo definately is applicable to self defense situations, more so if its a cross trained skill set that you combine with some form of striking art.

if someone only learns judo, and has to fight someone of an equivalent skill in judo, but also has a striking background, the guy that can strike will destroy the judo man simply because he can pretty much strike him at will.

Any martial arts can teach you techs and skills that you can use. You still have to train them to be able to use them and to be able to use them as secondary actions is what takes time. There is no quick fix no matter what route you take.

this vs that conversations in regards to martial arts are all requiring context.
It is literally retarded to stay with the argument.

But I digress...

[-N-]

Drake mentioned banging the forearms to make them harder. Is this to help crush the person to death if needed?

Yes.

It looks like a long hook or a hammer fist. But they really are forearm smashes to the temple, neck, face, elbow etc for closer range.

That's why you shouldn't cheat like how YKW was joking.

[bawang]

iron arm is no match for the tyrannical claw.

[IronFist]

Any martial arts can teach you techs and skills that you can use. You still have to train them to be able to use them and to be able to use them as secondary actions is what takes time.

This is correct.

Well, I assume you meant "you have to train them [in a realistic manner against resisting opponents] to be able to use them."

Many TMA schools don't do the part I put in brackets.

That being said, I think that when people start training against resisting opponents, it quickly becomes apparent what techniques are worthwhile and which ones are worthless.

All MA would likely evolve into something similar looking if they trained against resisting opponents.

It's only when you have the leaving punches extended (punches that wouldn't have even made contact in the first place) nonsense that you end up with people who have a repertoire of worthless techniques even if they practice them to the level of proficiency.

[-N-]

Well, I assume you meant "you have to train them [in a realistic manner against resisting opponents] to be able to use them."

Many TMA schools don't do the part I put in brackets.
.

If they aren't training that part, then they aren't traditional. They aren't "T", and they might not even be "MA".

[-N-]

iron arm is no match for the tyrannical claw.

Actually, tranny claw was a mistranslation of octopus.