Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 126

Thread: The tough thing about teaching martial arts.

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Norfair
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Maybe we should list all the "worthless TCMA techniques" here one by one. This way we can examine whether those techniques are truly worthless, or may be people just don't know how to apply it.

    What are those "worthless techniques"?
    Your troll-fu is excellent.

    Quantifying "worthless techniques" is also irrelevant to the discussion.

    We can assume there is a set of techniques that don't work as evidenced by the fact that BJJ tended to win in the early UFCs when it was style-based.

    Therefore, let us assume that:

    Techniques(BJJ) = useful
    Call this variable U.

    and

    Techniques(non-BJJ) = worthless
    Call this variable W

    It is safe to assume that amongst all the UFC competitors, some had spent a long time (L) practicing their techniques and had very good "gong," and others were noobs who hadn't been training very long (S) and just wanted to go prove how tough they were.

    So there are 4 sets of combatants:

    UL
    US
    WL
    WS

    It is safe to assume random pairings of competitors, so you have potentially:

    UL vs UL
    UL vs US
    UL vs WL
    UL vs WS

    US vs US
    US vs WL
    US vs WS

    WL vs WL
    WL vs WS

    WS vs WS

    Now considering that BJJ always won, we can assume that in the case of Ux vs Wx, the other variables don't matter, since some of those victories were in fact US vs WL.

    And just for fun, lets add the anecdotal evidence that nearly anyone who has gone from TCMA --> BJJ/MMA has experienced, and that is having years of experience in TCMA and being easily defeated by a noob in BJJ. And then also being a noob in BJJ and easily defeating people with years of experience in TCMA.

    Conclusion:

    Subsets of "useful" and "worthless" techniques exist, and time spent training developing "gong" in worthless techniques is not going to benefit one in combat, even if they are "good" at the techniques.





    Disclaimer: unless said techniques are "too deadly for the ring" and/or qi blasts. Then of course you would win!
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Back home in Atlanta, GA, USA, after living in Singapore
    Posts
    532
    In short...Whatatard.
    Yes, "Northwind" is my internet alias used for years that has lots to do with my main style, as well as other lil cool things - it just works. Wanna know my name? Ask me


    http://www.pathsatlanta.org

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Back home in Atlanta, GA, USA, after living in Singapore
    Posts
    532
    IF...Are you REALLY going down the whole "all tcma is useless" avenue again? Using this thread to do it? OMG you need a wakeupcall...
    Yes, "Northwind" is my internet alias used for years that has lots to do with my main style, as well as other lil cool things - it just works. Wanna know my name? Ask me


    http://www.pathsatlanta.org

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Norfair
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Northwind View Post
    IF...Are you REALLY going down the whole "all tcma is useless" avenue again? Using this thread to do it? OMG you need a wakeupcall...
    No, all I said was even if you practice a worthless technique to mastery level (good "gong" or whatever you want to call it), you still have a worthless technique. There are people who believe that all you have to do is train harder and your techniques will work. It's normal "guru" brainwashing. I'm saying it doesn't work that way.

    I just used BJJ in the previous example for simplicity.

    Not all TCMA is worthless. I even used a wing chun technique (pak da) in a confrontation once. Now, I wouldn't be likely to pak da a guy throwing a punch at me, but in the situation that happened his arm was already extended and a few inches from my chest and my hands were in the right position to pak da him, so I did.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Back home in Atlanta, GA, USA, after living in Singapore
    Posts
    532
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    No, all I said was even if you practice a worthless technique to mastery level (good "gong" or whatever you want to call it), you still have a worthless technique.
    Worth-less.

    Who says what is something's worth? The ring? You?

    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Not all TCMA is worthless. I even used a wing chun technique (pak da) in a confrontation once. Now, I wouldn't be likely to pak da a guy throwing a punch at me, but in the situation that happened his arm was already extended and a few inches from my chest and my hands were in the right position to pak da him, so I did.
    Well that's great. Then my point is don't use phrasing that sounds like you cr@p on anything tcma - related...
    Yes, "Northwind" is my internet alias used for years that has lots to do with my main style, as well as other lil cool things - it just works. Wanna know my name? Ask me


    http://www.pathsatlanta.org

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Now, I wouldn't be likely to pak da a guy throwing a punch at me, but in the situation that happened his arm was already extended and a few inches from my chest and my hands were in the right position to pak da him, so I did.
    This may help explain why techniqes are often practised or demonstrated on a "punch" that just hangs in the air. (which is commonly ridiculed by TCMA bashers)

    The arm can get there all kinds of ways, from pushing, blocking or anything else that might happen in a fight. Calling it unrealistic because people "don't punch that way" just misses the point. That form of demonstration is just a convenient way to demonstrate things.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Your troll-fu is excellent.
    From your following statements, your troll-fu is not bad yourself.

    ... a noob in BJJ and easily defeating people with years of experience in TCMA ...
    ... Techniques(BJJ) = useful ...
    ... Techniques(non-BJJ) = worthless ...
    ... Now considering that BJJ always won ...
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-26-2011 at 02:48 AM.

  8. #38
    the tough thing about teaching

    it is from the students.

    or most of the learning must come from the students themself.

    There was a graduate student from Singapore at UC Irvine.

    She invited me for a tea.

    She offered to show me her five ancestor fist set.

    I had to showed her some Baji and Tongbei.

    She showed me the whole set.

    I only show her a few moves.

    Quality is always more important then quantities.

    This is really a hard fact or pill to swallow for many young people.


  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Norfair
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    From your following statements, your troll-fu is not bad yourself.

    ... a noob in BJJ and easily defeating people with years of experience in TCMA ...
    ... Techniques(BJJ) = useful ...
    ... Techniques(non-BJJ) = worthless ...
    ... Now considering that BJJ always won ...
    You missed the entire point of my post.

    Although probably intentionally, since you have a high level of gong in troll fu.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Norfair
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    This may help explain why techniqes are often practised or demonstrated on a "punch" that just hangs in the air. (which is commonly ridiculed by TCMA bashers)

    The arm can get there all kinds of ways, from pushing, blocking or anything else that might happen in a fight. Calling it unrealistic because people "don't punch that way" just misses the point. That form of demonstration is just a convenient way to demonstrate things.
    Yeah, well I mean in real fighting no one leaves their punches extended. And I don't believe the argument of "oh well that 10 hit counter we learn on an opponent who leaves his arm extended after a punch is in case your opponent happens to have his arm extended" mostly because:

    a) they never say that in class. It's always "here's how you deal with a punch."

    b) they don't actually train against punches that retract from resisting opponents who are trying to hit you (eg. a realistic opponent)

    In my situation it wasn't even a punch. The guy was trying to threaten me and had his arm extended almost touching my chest.

    Let me stress again that I would most likely not pak da someone actually trying to punch me, especially a boxer. I'd do it in a Wing Chun sparring match but not in an actual fight. It works very well against WC style punches but is a good way to get punched in the head against a boxer. It doesn't work very well against head-level punches and requires a bit of "reaching" for the punch which is always a bad idea.

    But if the arm is already extended at chest height, pak da is probably the way to go.

    In my opinion, Wing Chun techniques tend to work well for dealing with "surprises" from a standing position. I have instinctively pak da'ed a few times over the years when someone (usually a friend) randomly "surprised" me with a punch. lol. But in an actual fight, I don't think I would use it, and that comes from experience in trying to use WC techniques against MMA/boxer guys and comparing it against using MMA (specifically Crazy Monkey) techniques against all other styles.

    To go back to the previous point, if you had two people fighting, one guy had 3 months of experience in crazy monkey style standup and the other guy had 5 years in the TCMA of your choice, I would put my money on the CM guy. The techniques are objectively better when it comes to combat.

    Don't get me wrong; I'm a terrible fighter. I suck with crazy monkey, and I suck even worse with TCMA. But my point is I was a better fighter after 3 months of CM than I was in my entire life previous to that point with Isshinryu and Wing Chun.

    edit - This is not an anti-TCMA post. I want to reiterate that I think WC techniques are fantastic for if you're just standing there doing nothing and you need to react in attack mode. You can flow from "just standing there" into whatever WC technique you need faster than you can flow from "just standing there" into some boxing technique, plus the simultaneous block/punch nature of many WC techniques lends itself well to this situation since if you are "just standing there" you're probably going to need to block something. But this is in isolation, before the fight has begun. If it actually turns into a fight, I'm going to use boxing, not Wing Chun.

    Although I have met a few people who can fight competently with WC.

    As always, use whatever works for you. But the important point is to find out what works for you and not blindly take the word of your guru sifu who is too deadly to spar with you.
    Last edited by IronFist; 11-26-2011 at 11:20 AM.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    Gongs aren't generally around technique.
    Gongs are conditioning and development for the most part.

    The equivalent in non traditional training would be resistance, body work, plyo, yoga, shock conditioning, etc etc.

    Gongs are the nails in the framework.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Pound Town
    Posts
    7,856
    the tough thing about teaching is trying to teach morality as a depraved souless american.

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
    Senior Business Director at TEAM ASSHAMMER consulting services ™®LLC

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Norfair
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    the tough thing about teaching is trying to teach morality as a depraved souless american.
    I would think the tough thing about teaching is not killing new students with qi blasts before they have developed their iron vest golden bell gong to be able to resist a level 1 fireball.

    Being "too deadly to spar" has some disadvantages.

    No wonder they don't allow internal arts in UFC.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    I would think the tough thing about teaching is not killing new students with qi blasts before they have developed their iron vest golden bell gong to be able to resist a level 1 fireball.
    Standing breathing execises were invented by teachers that got too frustrated by students that couldn't move and breath at the same time without tripping over their own feet.

    "Ok, just stand there and breath. You can do that without falling down, can't you???"

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    I would think the tough thing about teaching is not killing new students with qi blasts before they have developed their iron vest golden bell gong to be able to resist a level 1 fireball.

    Being "too deadly to spar" has some disadvantages.

    No wonder they don't allow internal arts in UFC.
    No matter how many times that I have read your post, it still looks like that you are trying to put down TCMA here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •