Originally Posted by
IronFist
Low stance training and holding stances and that stuff really has no purpose in training.
Let's look at why:
- holding a low horse stance builds muscular endurance in that particular position; a position which is not used in fighting
- holding a low horse stance builds a slight amount of strength for someone who is a noob as their muscles adapt to the increased load. However, the strength gains will quickly plateau, even if you increase the time for which you hold the stance. In other words, if you can hold a horse stance for 5 minutes and then you increase it to 20 minutes, your muscles did not adapt to be able to generate more tension and you did not increase your strength or maximal power generation. As stated in the first point, all you did was increase your endurance for a static contraction at a specific angle; an angle which does not occur in fighting. Indeed, the only way this would be beneficial would be if the goal of fighting was to hold a low horse stance for a long period of time
A better way to train is to look at factors that are necessary for fighting: strength and cardiovascular endurance (specifically in short bursts that are near the anaerobic threshold).
So one should do leg exercises that develop strength throughout a range of motion so you can generate more power for stronger kicks, or for better leverage in ground fighting, etc. Barbell squats are king for this. Increasing the weight lifted over time results in increases in strength. This is how the body and nervous system works. Increasing your time at a specific weight (such as holding horse stance for long periods of time) does NOT increase maximal strength. Increasing the weight DOES increase strength. This is basic physiology although I'm sure it will draw "but my sifu/ninja master/secret Asian dude I learned from says..." Please put down the Kool-Aid for a moment and pick up a basic physiology textbook.
One should also train for the type of cardio endurance needed in fighting; short round burst type stuff at a high intensity. Distance running is not a good choice. In fact, people have found that, for example, if they can run 5 miles but they are still getting tired in their sparring/fighting, that if they increase it so they can run 10 miles, they still get tired during training. Distance running is low output cardio and is not representative of fighting. Better choices for fighting are things like kettlebells, tabata interval sprints, or training rounds at high intensity.
Another way to look at all of this is to remember SAID (specific adaptations to imposed demands). In other words, you get better at doing things you do. So if you do horse stance all day, you will get better at doing horse stance. But being able to hold a low horse stance for hours does not translate into any advantage in fighting because all it does is cause your body to get better at sustained muscular contraction at a specific angle without benefiting cardio endurance or muscle output (raw strength potential).
I guess holding a low horse stance can build mental fortitude or show dedication or something, but as far as improving one's fighting ability, it's useless.
Posts like these usually draw tons of flames because it's a bunch of science thrown in the face of traditional guru instruction.
This is probably the most important post you will read on this forum this year.
How to condition yourself to become a better fighter:
- develop raw strength (squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press, weighted pullups, following a program that increases the weight used over time)
- develop endurance in a way that is similar to what the body experiences during fighting (kettlebells, tabata intervals, fighting rounds, jump rope)
Don't waste your time with any of the following:
- low stance training for time
- distance running
Finally, if low stance training was of any benefit to anything, then you would see professional athletes do it. People who make their living and support their families through their athletic performance have access to the best training techniques out of necessity (they also have access to the best drugs, but that's another topic). Want to be a fighter? Look at how professional fighters train. Want to be a weight lifter? Look at how professional weight lifters train (not that I'm advocating copying their lifestyle, but that's also another topic). Want to be an awesome gymnast? Look at how Olympic gymnasts train (hint: they lift weights). None of these people do stance training for long times because there's no benefit from it for anything other than being able to hold a low stance for a longer period of time*.
*the one exception being beginners who will get a little strength gain from it because their muscles are going from sedentary lifestyle to having this new movement imposed upon them. But as stated earlier, the strength gains are minimal and plateau quickly. It's analogous to how a noob who can only do 1 pushup trains to be able to do 10 pushups and his max bench press will increase a bit due to initial central nervous system adaptation. If he increases to 20 or 30 pushups it may go up a bit more. But if he goes up to 100 pushups it's not going to increase proportionally anymore because he's no longer developing strength because the load (resistance) is not increasing and therefore the CNS has no reason to adapt by increasing strength. This is the reason why powerlifters don't train by doing pushups (or anything else) for high reps. Powerlifters want to be able to lift as much weight as possible so their training represents that.
Fighters need high muscular output (so they have enough strength to make their techniques work) and high output cardio endurance (so they don't get tired halfway through the fight), and their training should represent that. Anything else is counterproductive at worst and a waste of time at best.
This post should be stickied in its own thread.
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). Needless to say, I never went back. Also, the teacher was overweight, didn't spar with students, and told me "ground fighting is pointless. We prefer to rip the guy's arm off and beat him with it." It was a "count off the reps" class and give everyone a false sense of confidence at all these deadly moves you're learning type of place. I was totally let down because at the time I had just had to move for work and thus had to stop going to the MMA place I was training at, and where I moved to there was nothing but McDojos, and then I found this place, and I know KM has reputation for being "no nonsense" and "deadly" and whatever, so I called, talked to the instructor, asked specific instructions and was told how realistically they train, so I was really excited. And then I got there and it was just another McDojo with most of the McDojo cliches.
