Thanks for at least taking it seriously, Frost. There are reasons I'm at this forum in my free time and not MMA forums, mostly for the number of those open minded about training methods. Also I will quote myself on some responses, because I feel I already answered parts here and there.
For reference, I use the terms Street Fighting and Combat interchangeably, meaning a no rules confrontation.
I don't mind and I didn't say it was easy. I must have posted it in another post so forgive me if I am reposting, but takedowns are my primary means of sparring with MMA background, simply because I don't want to exchange blows and on the street there are likely multiple people.
Also it's possible Jiu Jitsu or Judo guys don't say that, but for single/double legs it is called a sprawl (or if you want, a knee to the head, or an arm turn) and it is pretty easy.. a different story for hip throws/other throws.
I know if I ask wrestlers that I know, I would get one of two responses (all non-martial artists, although some may have done boxing or MMA for mixed time periods), either 1) yeah all fights go down to the ground... or 2) there's no way, i would go for his vitals and get the heck out of there (punch his throat, his eyes, etc)
Usually it depends on if they're from a poor area where they feel real combat is different than sparring, which is a recurring theme I am making here.
I tend to see that open minded grapplers are at grappling clubs and not schools/dojos because club grapplers usually do not pay a lot and do not have some false sense of pride in their style being ultimate. Once you involve a larger pay check, you almost have to believe to some extent that what you are training is really good stuff.
I know more wrestlers than I do Judo or Jiu Jitsu practitioners. While I know a couple jiujitsu practitioners, I probably only know 1 person who practiced Judo formally.. so I don't know what they're saying in terms of combat. As this is relevant to the topic here, I am assuming the original poster meant a standup stylist versus ground stylist, because I don't know anyone who is pure striking without take downs and I don't know anyone who doesn't know how to stand on their feet.
Not really, combat is combat. I had a friend who did wrestling since young age like myself, then he did Jiu Jitsu and MMA for about 4 years and was a huge street fighter. In all of his years on the street, he never got stabbed. He did however tie up his arms with a guy to take him down one day and got his jaw smashed by the guys friend with 'brass' knuckles. He changed his mind a bit about grappling in street fights.. although he kept training it for amateur MMA bouts he did. In my mind- what you train forms habits that cross boundary into how you will defend yourself on the street.
To give another example, when I was younger and was a bit rowdy of a teen, my close buddy's dad (who was a long time wrestler) once told me
"back in the day you could get in a fight and beat each other up, now a days you have to walk away or get away because everyone is holding knives and the situation is different." This really resonates with me and shaped my views long before I was involved in non-grappling arts.
This goes back to my comment about impoverished area/street fights vs. MMA-fights (one is reality) and also applies if the teacher is in a park in an impoverished area. We can only assume the challenger has a knife or friends waiting to come back to hurt you or class members in the future. It's never worth "showing him who is boss"
Now you see precisely why I train standup and have no desire to tie my limbs up in combat. I train take down defenses, and take downs, but never tying up my limbs with theirs. Also there may be a miscommunication between us about what standup is. Standup includes some amount of "grappling" in the sense there are takedowns and there is contact.
I do not call this grappling as grappling to me implies using your limbs to attempt to control the other person. To give another example, I have 2 friends who have been stabbed to some extent in the past 5 years. One was slashed across the surface of his belly and he was lucky it didn't pass the outer layer of skin. The other, who was an MMA guy who has a pretty big mouth on him, thought it was smart to feed into some idiot who was drunk (in an impoverished area again remember! where people don't know mms rules).
He went to lock up in clinch and got stabbed in the belly 2 or 3 times I believe. This is not to say that MMA guys are like this, or that this couldn't happen to a Kung Fu or Judo or other practitioner, so don't take that out of it..
This is to say that I have become even more a proponent of saying the only way to prepare for a street fight is practicing stand up and awareness of your surroundings. Mostly standup though, as any non-martial artist can also be aware of his surroundings.
Also if you were the one doing the stabbing as you suggest, you are a horrible teacher and shouldn't be teaching in public parks as you probably have mental issues
. It would be hard to defend yourself in court "the martial art master needed to stab the challenger" wouldn't sound good, right?
I'm not assuming that, I'm assuming it means trying to control my using your limbs. Once we tie up our limbs though, we are openly inviting their friends to step in or knives to slide into us. It's not easy to see if they have something in their sleeve without the bright lights of a dojo/school/kwoon.
I wouldn't call takedowns grappling, because the take downs I practice leave free limbs or standing mobility while doing them (depending on the takedowns you practice you may call it part of grappling, obviously common wrestling takedowns, hip throws, or others require all your limbs and weight to be locked into both legs for a time).