Fukien/Fujian White Crane

[Shaolin Master]

For FUBOKEN
Fujian White Crane
[Any further questions please ask]

Sorry I shall use Mandarin as it is easier for me (art least I didn’t use Hokkienese )

Fujian 1644-1662 – Yong Chun Bai He Quan (Wing Chun White Crane Fist)
Story states it being from the Bai Lien Si
Many people studied the art in the fujian area consisting of an accountable well versed 21 Masters.
Also practitioners became known as the ‘Chien Wu Hu’ – Primary 5 Tigers
1683 was carried on to Taiwan by practitioners who became known as ‘Hou Wu Hu’ - Later 5 Tigers

Initially known to contain the following fundamental Sets of techniques:
Dan Jr Dan Ma Fa
Shuang Jr Dan Ma Fa
Shuang Jr Shuang Ma Fa
Dan Jr Shuang Ma Fa
Gan Zi Da Fa
In Addition of Staff, Broadsword & Trident weapon Methods

The popularity of the style at the time made it influence and spread out. It had some influence almost all southern systems as it was spread out everywhere.

In Fact it was a major influence on the most popular and famous Fujian art of Wu Zhu Quan (5 Ancestors Fist). 5 Ancestors Fist was composed on the basis of the following systems at the time :
1. Bai He Quan
2. Da Mo Quan
3. Tai Zu Quan
4. Xing Jr Quan (Hou Quan)
5. Lohan Quan
Wu Zhu Quan in itself is a very large system. I may outline it later some time.

The white crane system itself was further complicated by being distinguished into 5 separate systems all of which had developed different routines/forms. However the basic strategies usually remained similar :

Zong He (Jumping/Free Crane)
Fei He (Flying Crane)
Ming He (Chirping/Shouting Crane)
Bai He (Ancestral Crane)
Fan He (Feeding Crane)

In Taiwan the Ancestral Crane was most popular.
Ancestral Crane consists of the following routines/forms :

Qi Xing , Shan He, Wu Mei Hua, Wu Bu, Gong He.
Xiao Yao, Da Yao,Yao Gu, Bai Mei, Ti Gua.
Zong He, Zhan Ji, Zhan He, Chuan Zhen, Fo Shou, Hu Die Zhang, Shi Ba Lohan Shou


Japanese Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate also traces much of its roots in the Bai He Quan in Fact one of their forms (Though incorrectly performed and practised) contains almost exact movements as one of the routines.

In 1929 a research organisation was established to Find the essence of the original Yong Chun Bai He Quan, They discovered that the art was popular in Singapore, Malaysia & Taiwan. Some of the routines considered here include the following.

Chi Bu San Zhan
Shi San Tai Bao
Shi San Bu Yao
Mei Nu Shu Zhuang
Ba Fen Cun Fa
Gan Zi Da Fa
Bai He Zhan Ji
Tang Lang Zhao Er
Meng Hu Na Mao
Bai He Xian Zhao
Li Shi Tuo Xie
Shuang Long Chu Lin
Shuang Yan Zhuan etc


Common features include things like Gang Jing (Hard Jing) which is common to many southern Martial arts. Liu He Combination of Internal/External, Shorter Stances, close fighting tactics, Sticky Hands, quick and triangular stepping, many hand formations (ie, crane claw, tiger claw, eagle claw, fist, vertical fist, phoenix eye fist, dragon eye fist, snake tongue, etc……
The routines/forms are very short in the beginning stages but they become longer as they progress.
Routines commence with the Hung Mun gesture (like hung gar) except that instead of coming from the right side it approaches from the left side. In the Fujian original formation it is commonly found to follow fujian method of the outside of the fist touching the palm centre rather than the inverse/inside part (which is the way Hung gar does it).

Another feature is the use of Bu Ding Bu Ba Ma stance which is central the fighting position in the system. In terms of power and strikes the palms are used very often in conjunction with the crane wing etc… fists in typical southern style.

Stances
Ping Ma
Sz Ping Ma
Ding Zi Bu
Bu Ding Bu Ba Ma
Ji Xiu Bu
Gui Bu

Basics
Dan Jr Yin Yang Jie
Sheung Jr Yin Yang Jie

[Fubokuen]

Thankyou for your trouble. The Wing Chun White Crane name is interesting. I was mainly asking if you had any experiencial comparison to offer in regard to White Crane and White Tiger from the Fujian temple. The paragraph beginning with "common features" could describe the White Tiger that I know and maybe some "hakka" styles as well.

[Shaolin Master]

Hello

In Fujian Style the white tiger and White Crane Styles differ significantly.
To begin with the stance is higher in White Crane.
The Breathing in White crane is very very different and wierd. Short quick exhalations with a heh empty air sound (part of special qi gong)!]
The Stance in Fujian Bai Hu is higher than hung gar (Hei Hu) etc, but lower than Crane. It uses a typical fujian stance where there is a front stance with the rear leg slightly bent, 45 degrees feet angles, parallel, line between foot of front and heel of rear...etc.
Power is completely different regarding the sink and the float logic that prevails in the Hakka related arts ...
more later busy now

any direct questions please ask and I will do my best to answer. If prefer in private for in depth discussions please use email

Regards
Shi Chan Long

[Shaolin Master]

A little more...

The Styles of Hakka (Chu Gar, Chou Gar, JookLum Sth PMantis) and Bak Mei, Long Ying as well as Yau Kung Mun share similar Features due to one of the following 'probable' reasons.(This is pretty dangerous so please note the use of probable without any claim before critiscm).
Firstly The founder of Chu Gar was learning at shaolin temple (being royalty from superseded dynasty) at the same time as Bak Mei and the other elders. Basically Bak mei was an elder at the time and probably was more of an authority at that time. As it is known from Fujian records the most popular styles at the time were Duan Quan, Lohan Quan, Mei Hua Quan and the like. In those days Forms did not number as many as today and in fact it was the principle techniques and tactics that made up the system as well as special skills relevant to the system (ie iron body, palm or fist, light skills, cavity striking, and the like). [It is for this reason that Shaolin-Do's claims are questionable especially funny things like Chen's Tai Qi or worst still a combined form(modern PRC Creation), that is truley silly and 900 forms no way, but let's not go there, not to mention there are 12 forms of Hua Quan but Cai LongYun only wrote books on the first 4 of which shaolin DO proclaims to teach and many other yeah right!].
From these events Chu Fook To (Chu Gar Ming Emperor Family) after the Ching's soldier's raid of shaolin and all associated people, changed his name fled and kept the Chu Gar style within the Family (Hakka = Ke-ren, Ming flee to sth) for generations. Latter Yi Sui created(renamed) the style to Chou Gar and Student of Lau Sui created Kwang Sai Jook Lum..
The Hakka style's characterised by
-Sink, Float, Spit & Swallow
-Rounding of Back
-Leg Jing (Impulse stepping)
-No T no V Step [Bu Ding Bu Ba]
-Centre line punching, Open hands standbye
-2 man sticky hands (Feeling Hands)
-Bridges training
-Phoenix Fist
Fighting is using tactics such as close gap, cross bridge, feel balance of power and retaliate accordingly, explosive power, small area striking aggressive and infinite til battle is won.

Bak mei & Fung Dao De as all know fled to Ermei (Ngor mei..whatever), Both exchanged ideals yet Taoist principle were invoked, Bak Mei remained in the Ermei areas, Fung Dao De wandered and resided in places such as Wudang are and the like absorbing the Way (Dao). Bak Mei introduced principles such as the Bakua area striking and furthered his shaolin art. Fung Dao De emphasised internal aspects. Again without disrespect only a small amount of forms(1-4)if any would have been trained or practised.

to be continued

Regards

Shi Chan Long

[Fubokuen]

Hi thankyou very much for your perspective. Are you saying that your Fujian Bai mei and Bai Hu do not utilize the sink float swallow spit posture?

Are there any records of a White Lotus fist in the Fujian temple?
We may at some point want off this forum. You can start emailing as soon as you like...
fubokuen@hotmail.com

[Shaolin Master]

Hello,

Just as a query are there any Yang Jwing Ming students that would like to outline there own experiences of Taiwanese White Crane (Mine are from China and singapore).

Please share concepts and regumin as you like.

Regards

Shi Chan Long

[Ky-Fi]

Hey ShaolinMaster,
I've studied mostly Taiji from Dr. Yang, but I did take one 3-day seminar on his White Crane. I believe the seminar I took covered a lot of the material that a beginner would learn in the first few months of regular classes. He really focused a lot on spine and chest movement--lots of slow exercises for bow-ing and arcing the chest, loosening up the vertebrae and waist--all coordinated with reverse breathing. Lots of focus on sinking the qi, and really mainting your root. We sort of did some Sumo type wrestling with a partner to get a sense of rooting. Dr. Yang tended to divide the White Crane qigong into hard and soft. The soft stuff was VERY similar in theory and practice to Taiji--mind leading the qi through very relaxed muscles in coordination with slow physical movement. The hard qigong stuff started out the same, but then the muscles (forearm, for instance) would be slowly tensed to trap the qi there, held tensed for a few seconds, and then released--these being excercises designed to use the qi to build up muscular strength.
He also emphasized the nature of White Crane as a soft-hard style--a lot of the same whipping power through relaxed muscles as Taiji does, but with a bit more focus on muscular tension at the impact of the techniques.
We also did some 2-person forearm conditioning drills (maybe it was called 3-star blocking?)--which left my arms slightly black and blue for a few days [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img].
I've worked a number of those exercises into my current training, but I decided to focus on Taiji, so that's been pretty much the extent of my White Crane instruction

"Without tradition, art is a flock of sheep without a shepherd; without innovation it is a corpse." --Sir Winston Churchil

[Shaolin Master]

Thank you for your post it has been pleasant. Although a seminar is not exactly it ..I was wondering about actual practitioners.

Regards
Shi Chan Long

[Ky-Fi]

Hey, no problem. If you have specific or higher level questions, I'm sure somebody at the school would be happy to talk to you--you can get contact info at:

http://www.ymaa.com

[5thBrother]

Hi.

Does anyone have a copy of this southern white crane book - "Fujian Nanquan Congshu Hequan" (chinese) handy?

I have a couple of quick questions someone with a copy maybe be able to answer for me.

thanks!

[SouthernTiger]

Hi 5th brother,

I have a copy of that book. I may be able to help but my chinese is not so good. What are your questions?

-Blake

[Firehawk4]

Loran Benards Fujian White Crane book A rare art revealed is a good book much better than his first one . Does anybody know about this version of White Crane called Flying Crane ?

[Satori Science]

What do you want to know? your curious about the second version?
I'v got it, its an excellent book.

I was actually hanging out with Sifu Lorne three weeks ago in MD, his student won 1st place in his weight division in Lei Tai at the Koushu tourny

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s

[Minghequan]

Thanks for this Phil,

Interesting but sad to see that the internal has been overlooked perhaps in favour for a dare I say it more "marketable" expression!

Form is to train for energy development (Not for sparring), and for real life-protection the drills and/or pushing hands are meant for sensitivity training, they are not interchangeable! SPEED is never a subject for training, precision, accuracy, refinement, fluidity these are the qualities one aims for.

It often seems to me that the movements are too large to be a Crane. Large movements are meant for beginners, People like yourself will definitely find that during those oh so so many years of training, the form, through those years will slowly but surely, by itself, evolve, becoming smaller, higher in stance, smoother with constant connection to the ground with the entire body. One who has arrived at this state, could NOT have perform the form with such large circles.

The stepping is a manifestation of how one grounds oneself for energy cultivation via ground-reaction-energy. Secondly its stepping (what I call "Bicycle Stepping" ... You can't put pressure on both pedals at the same time and remain upright for very long!) is a form of constant motion and readiness to move should the circumstances warrant it. Lastly the steps are simply hidden leg manoeuvres: Blocks/Receiving motions, Circular Sweeps and destabilising motions, and lastly Hidden Kicks

The SanZhan sequences shown most probably shows that they are NOT familiar with the angles, power, and inches (centimeters, nowadays).

Most students head straight to the application and left out the cultivation, so, by the time they are in their 60's, and above, they do not have any internal power to apply it since what they utilize on when they were young were nothing more than muscles and quick turns and twitches just to gain the upper hand.

Most external arts walk this sort of path, BUT White Crane and Tai Chi DO NOT! Make no mistake about this.

The Old Master(s) used to say that if one can truly MASTER the
SanZhan, (together with the drills and indoor knowledge) it is more than enough to use for a lifetime! There is no need to even practice a separate QiGong set to supplement the White Crane, the SanZhan by itself, in itself, is whole and complete.

I have seen other examples on Youtube etc but turned away from it pretty **** quickly as it lacked any real connection to the internal. Lets keep in mind that the FOUNDER of White Crane in ALL of it's incarnations was Fang Qiniang .......... A WOMAN!

Do you, even for a fleeting moment think that she wanted her art to be EXTERNAL as it has sadly became!

The movements should be body-connected emanating from the ground up via the Dan Tien. The movements are fluid and very, very small and subtle.

It is my belief that White Crane is internal. Health, Qigong, Fighting are all inter-related. You cannot have one without the other. Keep in mind that Taoism has and remains a very big influence on not only Chinese Martial Arts but the very core of their culture. To separate from this is simply impossible by my way of thought. Their exhibition of White Crane is still very external, sometimes very static and lacking in the internal qualities I believe White Crane should embody.


GGM Xie Zhong Xiang was totally aware that the Crane is too hard based on his Taoist outlook. So he set upon himself to internalised it ~ this took many many years. And then it was TRANSMITTED to GM Huang who also became a Taoist. He took another 40 years to soften and internalise it even further, starting with the Deep Mind! This is one subject that most master are NOT apt enough to talk about much less teach.

It has been proven by such well respected Chinese Martial Arts Historians such as Stanely Henning and Brian L. Kennedy to name but two that the Chinese culture was heavily influenced by Taoist thought! So why have most Chinese masters turned their back on this? Maybe it's because Taoism in the Martial Arts is not marketable and therefore they cannot make money off of it!

It is clearly understood that when the Okinawan's were in touch with China, the old teachers did NOT transmit EVERYTHING to them.