TCMA or MMA?

[David Jamieson]

I think that wishing an apple was a block of cheese is retarded.

But maybe that's just me?

[Yum Cha]

...this clip has been brought up before and then as now the point should be, if a fighter can demonstrate what people regard as TCMA principles without ever following those principles training methods,


and we cant actually find clips of TCMA doing those principles in a similar full contact event, maybe the question should be why aren’t we training the same way as this guy if he it at the end goal we want to achieve?

OK, you will never learn to fight like that from just forms. Given.
But, as several TCMA guys have said, they train it from from through to fighting. Yes, the TCMA guys that fight, granted.
So, you can't really say that its a TCMA principle that can't be trained using TCMA. You can say that there are plenty of ways to train it, fair enough.

One guys says he has JKD background, you contend only boxing....probably as with most things, the sum of the parts?

And about the video, it appears you are saying that when a TCMA principle is used effectively in MMA, it doesn't count as TCMA? Has to be done by old guys in silk pjs? Or what?

And you, Frost, you've had some TCMA, I remember you talking about shock power. You said something about being able to apply that in MMA as well? I bet you have a few other tricks in your bag, besides the main game.

Not taking anything away from MMA, but this ongoing quest for video of TCMA that works made me think this would be interesting.

[YouKnowWho]

You don't use form to train how to fight. You use drills to train how to fight. Most of the time, the drill comes from form. After you have a set of drills that you like to train. Oneday you link it together, you just create a new form.

If MMA has 100 good moves. Instead of callling it move 1, move 2, ... oneday someone links all the moves together, The MMA form will be born. Will MMA guys use that form for training? Of course not. It will be a good subject for the future generation MMA guys to "reference".

[Frost]

OK, you will never learn to fight like that from just forms. Given.
But, as several TCMA guys have said, they train it from from through to fighting. Yes, the TCMA guys that fight, granted.
So, you can't really say that its a TCMA principle that can't be trained using TCMA. You can say that there are plenty of ways to train it, fair enough.

One guys says he has JKD background, you contend only boxing....probably as with most things, the sum of the parts?

And about the video, it appears you are saying that when a TCMA principle is used effectively in MMA, it doesn't count as TCMA? Has to be done by old guys in silk pjs? Or what?

And you, Frost, you've had some TCMA, I remember you talking about shock power. You said something about being able to apply that in MMA as well? I bet you have a few other tricks in your bag, besides the main game.

Not taking anything away from MMA, but this ongoing quest for video of TCMA that works made me think this would be interesting.

matt thorntons (ower of SBG) hands are almost 100% from boxing, i know this from first hand expereince, he left JKD because for him it was getting away from being practical and proven in a fight (the same arguement he uses against TCMA..well wing chun lol) as for belfort he has only boxing in his background northing.... else principles can be universal its the training methods that make them effective or not

what i am saying is that if you cant show a TCMA guy using those principles but you can show an MMA guy using them, maybe it should make one think about HOW you train those principles thats all

yes i still use my TCMA in both my grappling and MMA, but i have seen that same shOck power and whole body power expressed in wrestling from people with no TCMA training, again if they can get there and use it in a fight maybe training methods need looking at

[Shaolin]

Does it really matter where the technique comes from? If it works, use it.

[IronFist]

Does it really matter where the technique comes from? If it works, use it.

It matters because people might see it and go "cool, I want to learn that!" And then someone tells them it's TMA so they go to the wrong school. Knowledgeable people have the responsibility to help those that want to learn.

Plus, TMA people (at least on this forum) have a habit of seeing MMA techniques that are nothing like their own TMA techniques, and saying "oh yeah, that guy is doing TMA!"

I went to a heavy metal concert last weekend. I bet if I had taken some TMA people there they would've said "wow, that guitarrist is really good at playing country music!"

[Fa Xing]

matt thorntons (ower of SBG) hands are almost 100% from boxing, i know this from first hand expereince, he left JKD because for him it was getting away from being practical and proven in a fight (the same arguement he uses against TCMA..well wing chun lol) as for belfort he has only boxing in his background northing.... else principles can be universal its the training methods that make them effective or not

Which is weird because Jim McCann, Tim Tackett, Dan Inosanto, Erik Paulson, and many others train MMA fighters. I think it comes down to the fact of how you train, and how balanced your training can be.

There are a lot of people who swore off JKD claiming that it doesn't work, or specifically that trapping doesn't work; but it's better to say that they can't get it to work. I have had no problem using JKD trapping during a sparring session, whether with boxing gloves or mma gloves and not just against people who train JKD either.

[Robinhood]

Well, that is a stupid comment. Come here, I will straight blast you, and you try to kick me in the nuts.

If your arm is longer than my leg, maybe !.

Why do these guys just back straight away, isn't that the first thing to learn don't go straight back?

To much offense not enough defense in most of these fights, I think Machida is one of the few that seems to have defense qualities.

[BakShaolinEC]

a punch will always be a punch. a kick will always be a kick. who cares what you call it?

kickboxing, kung fu, karate, mma, boxing...

[Yum Cha]

It matters because people might see it and go "cool, I want to learn that!" And then someone tells them it's TMA so they go to the wrong school. Knowledgeable people have the responsibility to help those that want to learn.

Plus, TMA people (at least on this forum) have a habit of seeing MMA techniques that are nothing like their own TMA techniques, and saying "oh yeah, that guy is doing TMA!"

I went to a heavy metal concert last weekend. I bet if I had taken some TMA people there they would've said "wow, that guitarrist is really good at playing country music!"

Hang on, I'm certainly not saying if you see something done well in top level combat sport, you can pick the same skill up at your local macdojo or mckwoon...
Or that practicing 'monkey searching for ants' is going to give you the finger of death....

What I'm saying is that all roads lead to the same place, and you shouldn't compare novice TCMA with Pro MMA without having some sense of provenance. People want to see TCMA work, put it in the hands of a pro fighter and you'll see it work. You reckon its boxing, I've never seen boxing like that before, and we know a JKD influence is in there. I guess it is what it is, opinions may vary.

In essence, writing off TCMA as antiquated or ineffective in modern combat is a mistake. To my mind, combat is about surprise, advantage and overwhelming force. Having something in your bag the other guy hasn't seen or isn't prepared for sorts things out in a hurry.

Its all about learning to make it work.

Now, I could extrapolate more from personal experience, but not having video or signed affidavits in support, I just can't be bothered with the noise that is sure to ensue.

Robinhood: You can't kick when you are falling backwards. Yes, his failing was backing up on the railroad tracks. There is another video of a monster coming after a Russian Mob looking guy, Crocop's brother? He comes out with a similar attack and gets sidestepped and knocked out. Pay your money, take your chances...

Personally, I was wondering why he didn't go under and shoot...

[-N-]

Plus, TMA people (at least on this forum) have a habit of seeing MMA techniques that are nothing like their own TMA techniques, and saying "oh yeah, that guy is doing TMA!"[/URL]

TMA and MMA can do something the same way without the other guy having to be TMA.

[-N-]

If you go by the history of Praying Mantis, it was the MMA of its time.

According to Brendan Lai, back then PM was sometimes known as "the improved Shaolin".

[TenTigers]

I went to a heavy metal concert last weekend. I bet if I had taken some TMA people there they would've said "wow, that guitarrist is really good at playing country music!"

sure, if it was Zakk Wylde!

[ginosifu]

It matters because people might see it and go "cool, I want to learn that!" And then someone tells them it's TMA so they go to the wrong school. Knowledgeable people have the responsibility to help those that want to learn.

Plus, TMA people (at least on this forum) have a habit of seeing MMA techniques that are nothing like their own TMA techniques, and saying "oh yeah, that guy is doing TMA!"

I went to a heavy metal concert last weekend. I bet if I had taken some TMA people there they would've said "wow, that guitarrist is really good at playing country music!"

??????????

MMA techniques are TMA techniques, just modified for sports MA.

ginosifu

[Drake]

Country and metal are both derived from Jazz, and contain a lot of the very same musical elements and structure. Your statement contradicts your stance. A metal guitarist and a country guitarist actually only have minor differences in playing styles, and could easily interchange between both subgenres of Jazz.