interview with master zhou zhen dong

[xiao yao]

Hi guys

This is an interview i did recently with my master, Zhou Zhen Dong about his experiences learning kung fu, his master and training during the cultural revolution. hope its interesting


http://www.monkeystealspeach.co.uk/t...-zhen-dong.php

[Howard]

Nice. Thanks!

[mooyingmantis]

Will,
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing this with us!

[Tainan Mantis]

That was great! Since you see Teacher Zhou Zhendong all the time I hope that you can make more of those.

[xiao yao]

thanks for the feedback

yea, i wanna get more info from him. we had to cut it short coz he had something to do. im planning to get more info regarding the differences between taiji and meihua theories and training methods, shen fa etc. as well as some stories of the old masters and how they came up with the forms and drills we all train

[mooyingmantis]

Truly fascinating interview! I envy you! I hope to travel to China within the next five years. I would love to meet either Master Zhou or Master Qu at that time.

For those unfamiliar with Master Zhou, here is his martial lineage as I understand it:

Taiji Tanglangquan

王 郎
Wang Lang/Wang Wencheng
趙 珠
Zhao Zhu
李 秉 霄
Li Bingxiao
梁 学 香
Liang Xuexiang
姜 化 龍 + 宋 子 德
Jiang Hua Long + Song Zi De
崔 壽 山
Cui Shou Shan
张 楷 堂
Zhang Kai Tang
周 振 东
Zhou Zhen Dong

Meihua Tanglangquan

王 郎
Wang Lang
宇 宙 道 人
Yu Zhou Dao Ren
大 盜
Da Dao
李 秉 霄
Li Bing Xiao
趙 起 綠
Zhao Qi Lu
梁 学 香
Liang Xue Xiang
郝 莲 茹
Hao Lian Ru
郝 恆 祿
Hao Heng Lu
周 振 东
Zhou Zhen Dong

Will, please correct if any part of this is wrong.

Thank you for the information you have been willing to share!

[xiao yao]

yea, the lineage chart is right, except the lineage from hao family (as i understand it), is just mei hua mantis. master zhou explained that hao bin (son of hao heng lu) coined the name taiji meihua when he mixed the meihua from his father, with the taiji from ji cun ting (think i got that name right).

i also made a couple of mistakes i need to rectify.... the photo of cui shou shan and master zhang, thats actually not zhang kai tang... he learnt from cui shou shan much earlier.. ie 1930s. so i need to remove that photo

also, the first master taught master zhou three forms... bai yuan chu dong (white ape exits the cave), bai yuan kui yuan (white ape scans the field) and bai yuan tou tao (white ape steal peaches). the three forms are a set which make up a little story

[mooyingmantis]

OK, I will correct that. Thank you for the added information!

[CeruleanRyuujin]

thanks for the feedback

yea, i wanna get more info from him. we had to cut it short coz he had something to do. im planning to get more info regarding the differences between taiji and meihua theories and training methods, shen fa etc. as well as some stories of the old masters and how they came up with the forms and drills we all train

I would love to hear more once you get it! Thanks for posting!

[Yao Sing]

"I studied for three years, learning two forms: Bai Yuan Tou Tao (白猿偷桃 white ape steals peaches) and Kui Yuan, as well as a spear form which I never finished."

Two things - first for the Minimally Mature Artist types that think the Masters only practiced forms, what do you think he was practicing for hours a day probably 6 or 7 days a week all those years? I seriously doubt it was only forms.

Second, for the forms junkies who can't seem to figure out how the old Masters got so good compared to todays players - just because you learned the move sequence doesn't mean you're ready to start the next set. I've seen way too many students wanting to jump to the next set as soon as they get the last move committed to memory.

You want to be good like the old Masters you need to tear apart the forms and drill the individual moves every which way possible, over and over, with as many different opponents as possible. Learning the sequence is just the beginning of learning the set.

Of course this is meant for the newer KF players (and those on the outside looking in), the experienced guys should know this already.

Now back to reading the article.

[18elders]

they didn't have hundreds of forms to learn in the old days either, now most people are forms junkies and don't understand the moves but they know 2000 forms!!

[mooyingmantis]

they didn't have hundreds of forms to learn in the old days either, now most people are forms junkies and don't understand the moves but they know 2000 forms!!

I would prefer to know one or two core forms well. "Well" would mean:

1. I know the history and theme of the form,
2. I can understand the strategies taught within the form,
3. I have mastered the fighting combinations found in the form,
4. I can successfully apply the strategies and combinations against a non-compliant opponent.

This is how I train and how I teach.

[xiao yao]

i cant agree more

although master zhou teaches 2 lineages, his preferred one is taiji mantis, which just has the core forms: bengbu, luan jie, ba zhou, zhai yao etc

every form is broken down with applications, variations and 2 person drills to practice the applications. i think that is what is lacking, ive trained with a few people in china, and often its just forms.

i dont understand why some lineages of mantis have sooooooo many forms, i think a few forms done well is important. without forms i think its difficult to get good shen fa and flow, but you need to do a lot of repetition, so loads of forms is as bad as none.
cui shou shan said in your whole life, bengbu is enough..... you will never run out of content

[mooyingmantis]

cui shou shan said in your whole life, bengbu is enough..... you will never run out of content

That is a fascinating assessment of Bengbu!

[mooyingmantis]

i dont understand why some lineages of mantis have sooooooo many forms, i think a few forms done well is important. without forms i think its difficult to get good shen fa and flow, but you need to do a lot of repetition, so loads of forms is as bad as none.

I think it comes down to two things: a desire for prestige and financial gain.

Knowledge is power. As long as one can claim more knowledge, or secret knowledge, some will hang around hoping to someday have the same prestige.

Also, more forms become a carrot to hold in front of students to keep the cash flow coming in for a longer period of time.

On a personal note, I have been practicing the same form for the last four months and am up to over 550 repetitions of the form. I still have a long way to go, but it is a great feeling to immerse myself in the form and feel it becoming more and more a part of how I move and fight.