Alan Orr Wing Chun questions

[Alan Orr]

Dropped them it was a hypothetical question

W

Yep, up to the individual



If you read my post, that's what i 1st comment about. Your structure. I even comment how much you appear like my instructor.

Im agreeing with you Alan



Once again, i was agreeing with you.

Cool, I am lost with this thread lol

[GlennR]

Cool, I am lost with this thread lol

Hahhaa.... i think we all are and should put a bullet to its head!

One question Alan, do your guys enter boxing matches?

[Alan Orr]

Hahhaa.... i think we all are and should put a bullet to its head!

One question Alan, do your guys enter boxing matches?

Yes my guys have been in all types events -

MMA at all levels - K1 - Boxing - Chi Sao events.

I also have taught other guys outside of my group for Boxing matches which great results.

[guy b.]

The problem with making comments on just clips and what you think I am doing is its all on the assumption that you know what you are talking about.

I rather listen to feedback for the fighters that I meet and train with as they are the opinions that I value.

All you have shown is that you have very limited mind in the martial arts.

When did you visit my school and what is your background?

Alan you can't very well tell me that I shouldn't comment on clips when you yourself criticise the quality of a lot of the wing chun on youtube. Saying I have a "limited mind" is meaningless because you don't know who I am or what my experience is. It is telling that nobody who has agreed with you has received this particular criticism. All you are saying is that you will lash out in anger if anyone offers criticism- fair enough but this kind of response points to a lack of confidence.

I am confident that I know what I am talking about and that I have sufficient experience to be able to tell a lot from clips. Nobody would be stupid enough to suggest that an informed observer can't tell a lot about the skill level of a boxer or jiu jitsu fighter by looking at clips of their sparring or performance. Why should it be different for wing chun? I am only saying what I see. I do think there is a lot of good in some of your clips, especially the performances of a couple of your fighters, but I stand by my original analysis. Your clips do not show anything to make me change my mind.

Why you are personally insulted by this is beyond me.

[Alan Orr]

1. Alan doesn't or cannot do what his young fit fighters can do. He simply doesn't fight in the same way. This is probably because he was already quite old when he discovered the CSL method and so well past his prime, if he was ever gifted in that area. This would not be a problem except that:

2. Alan is at the peak of an extended teaching structure with different belt levels and little bits of information being fed, mostly to the kind of physically ungifted individuals that make up the average martial arts class, in a drip drip fashion over a long period of time. Even though the guys that fight are clearly better at puching and kicking in a live environment than Alan is, he still needs to dominate them in some way in order to maintain the heirarchy necessary for the business model being used. This is done as described earlier in chi sau and other drills using body weight, tactics of questionable real-fight utility, and a slappy chi sau technique that appears irrelevant to the way they actually fight. The obvious unfamiliarity of the best guys with chi sau shows that they are not doing a lot of it in training.

So where the f... do you get the idea that I teach in A drip drip fashion or I have some need to dominate my students to maintain some sort of he hierarchy for a business model!!??!!

The other stuff you say about slappy chi sau is enough to show you lack of understanding, but the other stuff is just rude and BS!

Your opinion is just a slander. The clips are just normal training not made up demos. What you have posted about is more what you think I am doing in in terms of teaching and things you don't even have a clue on. Thats why you have a limited mind.

[Alan Orr]

Alan you can't very well tell me that I shouldn't comment on clips when you yourself criticise the quality of a lot of the wing chun on youtube. Saying I have a "limited mind" is meaningless because you don't know who I am or what my experience is. It is telling that nobody who has agreed with you has received this particular criticism. All you are saying is that you will lash out in anger if anyone offers criticism- fair enough but this kind of response points to a lack of confidence.

I am confident that I know what I am talking about and that I have sufficient experience to be able to tell a lot from clips. Nobody would be stupid enough to suggest that an informed observer can't tell a lot about the skill level of a boxer or jiu jitsu fighter by looking at clips of their sparring or performance. Why should it be different for wing chun? I am only saying what I see. I do think there is a lot of good in some of your clips, especially the performances of a couple of your fighters, but I stand by my original analysis. Your clips do not show anything to make me change my mind.

Why you are personally insulted by this is beyond me.

I have not lack of confidence at all. I am angry with your rude comments on areas of my life that you know nothing about.

Informed observer has to understand what they are looking at. CSL system is not what you have learnt so of course you will see it in a different way. Depending of your level of skill you will see something, but that is questionable.

[Paul T England]

Guy b,

What is your definition of a "fighter"....you need to be young and dedicated to be a high level sports fighter such as mma, boxing etc. Their are plenty of unfit (less than match fit), older individuals I would not like to try and fight for real!!

Sounds like you have not crossed hands with Alan or his students?

Each individual brings different skills to the table. Like them or not you can probably learn something from many of them. I think we should not compare fighter and non-fighter but intelligent people and people with a screw loose!

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[Phil Redmond]

I understand that people have a right to their opinions. But this isn't youtube where anonymous trolls trash people. This is a martial arts forum. We're "supposed" to have some since of Mo Duk. It would be nice for you to post who you are an your background. Your comments would be taken more seriously by many others if you did so.

[Peter Irving]

Peter Irving here, I'm one the CSL "Iron Wolves" fight team main competitors. I normally try to resist entering into forum debates, and haven't truthfully had time to review the whole thread, so forgive me if I'm going over old ground.

I'm certainly not the best qualified, or for that matter the most interested party in debating what does and does not constitute proper Wing Chun, but I probably am the best qualified person to refute a couple of things about Alan's abilities and character.

1. Alan doesn't or cannot do what his young fit fighters can do. He simply doesn't fight in the same way. This is probably because he was already quite old when he discovered the CSL method and so well past his prime, if he was ever gifted in that area. This would not be a problem except that:

2. Alan is at the peak of an extended teaching structure with different belt levels and little bits of information being fed, mostly to the kind of physically ungifted individuals that make up the average martial arts class, in a drip drip fashion over a long period of time. Even though the guys that fight are clearly better at puching and kicking in a live environment than Alan is, he still needs to dominate them in some way in order to maintain the heirarchy necessary for the business model being used. This is done as described earlier in chi sau and other drills using body weight, tactics of questionable real-fight utility, and a slappy chi sau technique that appears irrelevant to the way they actually fight. The obvious unfamiliarity of the best guys with chi sau shows that they are not doing a lot of it in training.

Alan is my teacher, and additionally has been one of my main sparring partners for the last two years. He's perfectly capable of doing what he teaches, and outworks everyone else on the team. The best I can ever get is %50/50, and that's a rare and probably charitable experience.

As for the business model, I think Alan has probably lost a small fortune training me, getting me fights and supporting me through them.

As for the drip feeding, I've never had any secrets concealed from me nor anyone else, just a well structured, progressive delivery of skills. I suppose you could call that drip, drip fashion.

But perhaps I only say that because I've been dominated by an "untouchable cult figure". Who knows?

[anerlich]

Peter,

Good to see a student backing his instructor.

[Alan Orr]

Thanks Pete.

Kind words from someone I respect as a fighter, student, training partner, a teacher to me also and great friend.