Alan Orr Wing Chun questions

[Vajramusti]

Exactly.

Alan's guys fight using WC.... why the hate?

I really dont get it

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no hate here.

[Shǎguā]

Anything that contradicts the magic Peanut Butter and his Jellies is taboo on this board. Didn't you know?

[Alan Orr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SJrVX2Nr68

New Alan Orr Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun Chi Sao Clip

[Phil Redmond]

Here is a clip of a guy exchanging with another , it looks like VT , he moves like VT, he is using techniques from VT. He learned from a man considered to be a VT fighter.


CLIP

C'mon Kev. You can't use that clip of an example of fighting. The other guy isn't trying to wreck him. Like I said before. Demos are just that. Including mine.

[Phil Redmond]

I like anyone who fights effectively and I like Alan Orr's skill.... But, just from my own perspective so as not to cause a debate here, "IMO" there's not much there in regards to WC principles. The few that are demonstrated are quickly contraindicated. Nothing wrong with doing whatever one wants to do, but I'm going to have to take the opposing viewpoint...... There's more than one way to illustrate a principle or core concept but they're all interrelated and if you follow one principle, or even two, and not the rest, I think it's pretty safe to say one's no longer exhibiting WC. Just my two cents.... Other than that, the man can fight...

I could say that other people's Wing Chun principles are not right because they aren't mine. ie, my Wu covers my uppergate where most opponents will strike. Other's wu is the middle gate. But I don't do that because Wing Chun is a tool which can by used various ways as long as it's effective.

[Phil Redmond]

Alan, there are many keys on a keyboard by some are hardly used. They are still keys aren't they? There are many chords in music but all aren't used in one musical piece. But they are still chords. A fight might never require a tan, fook, pak, lop, etc. Wing Chun teaches economy of motion, and energy. The most economical tech might not look like what the average WC person expects to see. Fighters understand that. Also there are some people brainwashed to think that one Sifu has ALL the answers and that's really sad. I give you big props and you're a credit to WC regardless of what the brainwashed people say

[JPinAZ]

I caught it too - Alan says that techniques like pak bong laap are beginner level stuff but he's not going to use that. But in both instances where he demonstrated 'free sparring' that's exactly what he used - Pak, bong and laap (in that exact order)

Besides that, the rest of what he is saying in the clip make sense - because for the most part, it's just basic general fight mechanics. But there is a disconnect in what he's saying and what he's actually doing as noted above.

[Subitai]

Man, if a guy like Alan makes it work for him....WORK being the key word.
Then go ahead... man kick ass.

Why do people get so caught up on a "Particular" looking style. Can't we all agree that if 5 guys learned to fight well ....albeit from different styles, then they ALL WILL most likely do the simplest, most effecient motions to get the job done.

I mean, once you're at the top of the mountain...things start to look similar.

Shoot, I do Hung Gar (also a bridging style) and some of the things Alan did is what we do. It's false perceptions.... Being loose and comfortable yet ready to apply is more real and makes sense. For example, Nobody should think you have to be using animals or some crazy sh!t like that or it's not Hung Gar.

Fundamental Kung Fu skills, like a relaxed shoulder and sunk elbow cross all boundaries and styles.

In the end, if you have good Kung Fu fundamentals...it should show out, regardless of style.

[Paul T England]

I tried to stop myself from replying!!!!!

First off I am not Alan's biggest fan, I have respect for him and his teacher and on the few occassions I have met with them, I have to admit they have helped me and my wing chun by making me think. Some of the drills they use make alot of sense and thier functional approach is certainly ahead of its time (although many wing chun groups are moving that way).

I was watching a clip the other day of a wing chun guy and I thought, hey that looks a bit like Alan Orr......when I checked out the guys history it turns out one of his influences was Alan. To me this shows that the Chu/Orr family have thier own unique body methods and techniques and that the system can be passed on. This to me is positive and you can often tell good/strong lineages by thier trademark techniques and structures. WSL family are a good example fo this as I guess are the WT & TWC families.

Wing chun is a system, just like mathematics.....you have certain formulas and mehtods but once you understand the principles and concepts if it works its good. You are doing wing chun (well trying to!!!) if you are studying the methods and drilling the forms. How welll you do it will depend on your effort, testing and how good the teaching system is.

So after that long rant.......Alan, thanks for posting, if it makes people think and train that extra half hour today then well done. If it gets one more non wing chunner thinking that wing chun might have something then well done.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[Hebrew Hammer]

From an outsiders perspective, I thought his vids are solid. I'd train with an instructor like that anytime. It never ceases to amaze me the fanaticism with which some people hold on to lineages, styles, techniques as being altruistic. There are always many paths along the journey...Phil has the gist of it...show some respect, learn from others and work on yourself.

[Alan Orr]

I caught it too - Alan says that techniques like pak bong laap are beginner level stuff but he's not going to use that. But in both instances where he demonstrated 'free sparring' that's exactly what he used - Pak, bong and laap (in that exact order)

Besides that, the rest of what he is saying in the clip make sense - because for the most part, it's just basic general fight mechanics. But there is a disconnect in what he's saying and what he's actually doing as noted above.

Please try on to hang on to every single word I say. Pak and Lap I use of course, but it has many levels. In the clip I am taking about using it in sparring where it becomes the basic application of movement for striking. Of course I use Pak and Lap in Chi Sao which is training my movement and skill. This is my whole point - its not set in stone. The clip you are talking about is me doing chi sao not sparring, so of course you see Pak and Lap. You also see me leaking the strike with one hand which is control of the movement in the line of attack used by Lap and so on. The important thing is that skills should develop. Repeating an application with no ideal of the development is the problem that is often seen.

[Alan Orr]

Alan, there are many keys on a keyboard by some are hardly used. They are still keys aren't they? There are many chords in music but all aren't used in one musical piece. But they are still chords. A fight might never require a tan, fook, pak, lop, etc. Wing Chun teaches economy of motion, and energy. The most economical tech might not look like what the average WC person expects to see. Fighters understand that. Also there are some people brainwashed to think that one Sifu has ALL the answers and that's really sad. I give you big props and you're a credit to WC regardless of what the brainwashed people say

Thanks Phil.

[Alan Orr]

Ranting like a fool eh? Uh hum.....your videos? Irony at its best!

Call it what you like mate. I don't give a sh1t anyway. I gave up WC and I regret writing that post. Its a waste of time like your CSLWC ideas.

I wasn't telling you what to think! You read it and responded and this will be my last post.

Keep up the bad work!

GH

Did you give up your wing chun because it didnt work? lol

Sorry couldn't help myself.... look only a weak minded person would be so upset about a persons views who they don't even know, have never met and did not even address them or their style in the first place.

This is way too funny.

Unless you know my system then to have such a strong hate of it is funny to me. It says a lot about a person.

[Alan Orr]

From an outsiders perspective, I thought his vids are solid. I'd train with an instructor like that anytime. It never ceases to amaze me the fanaticism with which some people hold on to lineages, styles, techniques as being altruistic. There are always many paths along the journey...Phil has the gist of it...show some respect, learn from others and work on yourself.

Many thanks

[Alan Orr]

Man, if a guy like Alan makes it work for him....WORK being the key word.
Then go ahead... man kick ass.

Why do people get so caught up on a "Particular" looking style. Can't we all agree that if 5 guys learned to fight well ....albeit from different styles, then they ALL WILL most likely do the simplest, most effecient motions to get the job done.

I mean, once you're at the top of the mountain...things start to look similar.

Shoot, I do Hung Gar (also a bridging style) and some of the things Alan did is what we do. It's false perceptions.... Being loose and comfortable yet ready to apply is more real and makes sense. For example, Nobody should think you have to be using animals or some crazy sh!t like that or it's not Hung Gar.

Fundamental Kung Fu skills, like a relaxed shoulder and sunk elbow cross all boundaries and styles.

In the end, if you have good Kung Fu fundamentals...it should show out, regardless of style.

Nice post. thanks