White Crane and Wing Chun

[Hendrik]

1, The following clip, starts 4.58/10.00 is exactly the type of old red boat Wing Chun Chi Sau which found in older Wing Chun family such as the Cho family and YKS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadGs...eature=related




2, after this chi sau section, one can see the soft of White crane. that is similar to the crane playing with its wings. however, this is not the path Wing Chun's designer took.

Wing Chun took the Emei snake path where the finger and wrist part is tracing circle, where the other parts of the body limps/ joints is waving in an "S" shape. the tracing circle is what it is call the worm move, where the S shape trajectory of the body limps is called snake slide.

That is what a Worm move snake slide is about. that is the Snake engine of WCK.

Due to this different engine, the power, power generation and structure handling of WCK is different with the White Crane as shown in the clip.

So, it is more then just the intention or Nim Lik or triangle most of us think. the snake engine bring WCK into a dynamic structure platform.

So, for the set of WCK, if it is not practice with the snake engine, it will default back to White Crane.

[GlennR]

1, The following clip, starts 4.58/10.00 is exactly the type of old red boat Wing Chun Chi Sau which found in older Wing Chun family such as the Cho family and YKS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadGs...eature=related




2, after this chi sau section, one can see the soft of White crane. that is similar to the crane playing with its wings. however, this is not the path Wing Chun's designer took.

Wing Chun took the Emei snake path where the finger and wrist part is tracing circle, where the other parts of the body limps/ joints is waving in an "S" shape. the tracing circle is what it is call the worm move, where the S shape trajectory of the body limps is called snake slide.

That is what a Worm move snake slide is about. that is the Snake engine of WCK.

Due to this different engine, the power, power generation and structure handling of WCK is different with the White Crane as shown in the clip.

So, it is more then just the intention or Nim Lik or triangle most of us think. the snake engine bring WCK into a dynamic structure platform.

So, for the set of WCK, if it is not practice with the snake engine, it will default back to White Crane.

the silence is deafening.....

[Minghequan]

How do you discuss something with someone who "Knows everything?"

[Hendrik]

For anyone who is interested to see a real deal from the ancient China, here is one.
This is the chart of Emei 12 Zhuang the ancient art which is fused with White Crane to create the Siu Lin Tau art which later become Wing Chun Kuen.

This is the most top view or Chart of this ancient system which is preserve in the Beijing Museum today.

here are details under this chart.


1, the top row right above to the box is the 12 type of technics.

2, The box means the frame the 12 type of technics serving.
In side the box with the drawing of human, dragon....ect means the physical world we are living in.
the letter in the middle of the box stated Ying Yang explicit implicit....
The character in the left means application of the art. the character in the right means body /soul/ engine of the art.
The character at the bottom of the box means form, shape, material/physical.

3, the three character supporting the physical world box is the Jing Qi and Shen.

4, The box in the most bottom supporting the Jing Qi and Shen, is the Tatagatha's four wisdom. within the four wisdom box is the true emptiness wonderful existance. and in the very middle of this box is the Buddha nature.

5, there is a dotted line on the left connect the top row to the application of the middle box to the bottom box. this is the lively characteristics of the buddha nature.

6, there is a dotted line on the right connect the top row to the body of the middle box to the bottom box. this it the freedom characteristics of the buddha nature.




Thus, there are lots and lots of details how Martial art, Daoist practice, Buddhism fuse together and all the details in training to attain each type of kung fu. it is much much more complex then most in the west think. it is practically a technology and with details process.


It is this type of quality and details which I use as reference when doing research into the acient art.

Wing Chun Kuen got it's Zen and Qi from this art. in fact, the sealing off and close off, of Wing Chun is from this art. Wing Chun is not doing what most southern fist call the Lien Sil Dai Da or hit and cancle in the same time. but expert in Sealing off and close off. that is the trade mark of Wing Chun. seal off.....

There are details and details can be investigate and discuss. and sure, i know this because i have spend 30 years in the search among with lots of friends who help me.

[GETHIN]

Hi Hendrik, I can't get u tube here, but I agree with your posts - thanks for sharing the great chart. I studied white crane in Fuzhou a few years back, that included six months intensive chi sao (four hours every afternoon). Last year I was in Yongchun at the Weng Gong martial gym for some more crane.
As mentioned elsewhere on this forum, chi sao becomes like a game of speed chess after a while - great stuff.
Unable to find a White Crane master in Xi'an,I now study Yongchun quan (WC).
I was made aware of the connections between these styles years ago, but it is only since beginning to study WC that I realised just how close they actually are.
The similarities in applications, footwork and hand/wrist actions are much more than coincidental I think.

[Hendrik]

Great Job!

Best Wishes for your WC study in China!

[Ben Gash]

This is exactly the same sticky hands that everyone who doesn't do Wing Chun does

[Hendrik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN5Ix9hYYb4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX6pksjlghM

[guy b.]

1, The following clip, starts 4.58/10.00 is exactly the type of old red boat Wing Chun Chi Sau which found in older Wing Chun family such as the Cho family and YKS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadGs...eature=related




2, after this chi sau section, one can see the soft of White crane. that is similar to the crane playing with its wings. however, this is not the path Wing Chun's designer took.

Wing Chun took the Emei snake path where the finger and wrist part is tracing circle, where the other parts of the body limps/ joints is waving in an "S" shape. the tracing circle is what it is call the worm move, where the S shape trajectory of the body limps is called snake slide.

That is what a Worm move snake slide is about. that is the Snake engine of WCK.

Due to this different engine, the power, power generation and structure handling of WCK is different with the White Crane as shown in the clip.

So, it is more then just the intention or Nim Lik or triangle most of us think. the snake engine bring WCK into a dynamic structure platform.

So, for the set of WCK, if it is not practice with the snake engine, it will default back to White Crane.

This clip is mostly crane power generation. They are using the hand touching part that you highlight for power path testing as well. It is all about SBG in crane. No chance that wing chun will default back to that if they don't do it. It isn't in the wing chun forms.

[Hendrik]

This clip is mostly crane power generation. They are using the hand touching part that you highlight for power path testing as well. It is all about SBG in crane. No chance that wing chun will default back to that if they don't do it. It isn't in the wing chun forms.

What is sbg?

IMHO

Wing chun defaults back to white crane because wing Chun is designed using the inch jin joints power of white crane fuse with the snake engine . If the snake engine is gone, then the inch Jin joint power as in wing Chun sun punch is always there to be defaulted.

[guy b.]

Power generation in crane is based on san chien (sarm bo gin). How can you talk about crane not knowing what this is? Bak mei, SPM, lung ying, white crane, 5 ancestor, Uechi Ryu and all the Okinawan karates are similar in this respect. Wing chun doesn't have it. Power generation in that art is a bit of a mystery. Something to do with the pole I think.

Here is a good example of crane short power:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVXEc...ure=plpp_video

[TenTigers]

Guy B., if WCK is descended from Wing Chun Bak Hok (Yung Chun Bai Hei) then it actually should have it, yes?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Some Wing Chun guys do their SLT like a Sanchien...

[TenTigers]

Fukien Wing Chun Bak Hok has a samjien kuen, so it is related to the above styles as well.
Ngoh Mei snake techniques that Hendrik mentions shows many similarities to the SPM I was taught. I would be greatly interested in seeing some application of this.
It might shed some more light...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fukien Wing Chun Bak Hok has a samjien kuen, so it is related to the above styles as well.
Ngoh Mei snake techniques that Hendrik mentions shows many similarities to the SPM I was taught. I would be greatly interested in seeing some application of this.
It might shed some more light...

Well, don't hold your breath waiting for actual applications ( fighting).
Considering how much some southern systems have in common ( far more than they have different), its not inconceivable that they MAY have come from ONE original system.
What that systems was is irrelevant really, it;s enough that we can see that they share "it".
Of course with different masters customizing their systems it is logical that "IT" would "show" in different ways.